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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I recently drove from Amsterdam to Rome. A trip of about 1650 kilometers. A very nice trip via the "no speed limit Autobahn" of Germany, the mountains of Switzerland and the North of Italy, the turning roads of Italy and the hills of Tuscany. And do not forget the city trafic to get out of Amsterdam and into Rome. A great city by the way.

The iDrive7 system of my nicely revving 330i Touring registered that I did it in 13 hours and 15 minutes. I had to keep my foot down. I always went about 10% faster than the official speed limit (I like to keep my driving licence) and where there would be no speed limit (main part of Germany) I would hold on to a steady 190 kilometers p/hour. Trafic was fine.

The iDrive7 system did not record my stops but it must have been something like this:
  • 1st stint of 275 km
  • 15 minute stop for coffee, bathroom and leg stretching
  • 2nd stint of 275 km
  • 30 minute stop for coffee, a quick sandwich and to fill up the petrol tank
  • 3rd stint of 275 km
  • 15 minute stop because my wife was complaining
  • 4th stint of 275 km
  • 30 minute stop for dinner and a full tank
  • 5th stint of 275 km
  • 15 minute stop because my wife needs to freshen up a bit
  • 6th stint of 275 km

So we stopped for a total of 1 hour and 45 minutes, bringing the total travelling time to exactly 15 hours. It was fun, especially on the left lane of the Autobahn and in the mountains on the border of Switzerland and Italy. Petrol was pumping through my veins.

Which brings me to my question. How long will it take with the i4? Any ideas?

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Hi Hans,

We did Ams - Zürich in 3 stops in iX3 and back Zurich - Ams in 2 stops only! Start full charge, arrived to IONITY about 3-4% so really yolo’ing it.
I4 will be more aerodynamic than iX3, so I believe the limiting factor will be the bio breaks and added complexity of always stopping at IONITY (now you could just time the gas station stops).
Normally charging was faster than a regular toilet break + grab some food stops.
 

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I recently drove from Amsterdam to Rome. A trip of about 1650 kilometers. A very nice trip via the "no speed limit Autobahn" of Germany, the mountains of Switzerland and the North of Italy, the turning roads of Italy and the hills of Tuscany. And do not forget the city trafic to get out of Amsterdam and into Rome. A great city by the way.

The iDrive7 system of my nicely revving 330i Touring registered that I did it in 13 hours and 15 minutes. I had to keep my foot down. I always went about 10% faster than the official speed limit (I like to keep my driving licence) and where there would be no speed limit (main part of Germany) I would hold on to a steady 190 kilometers p/hour. Trafic was fine.

The iDrive7 system did not record my stops but it must have been something like this:
  • 1st stint of 275 km
  • 15 minute stop for coffee, bathroom and leg stretching
  • 2nd stint of 275 km
  • 30 minute stop for coffee, a quick sandwich and to fill up the petrol tank
  • 3rd stint of 275 km
  • 15 minute stop because my wife was complaining
  • 4th stint of 275 km
  • 30 minute stop for dinner and a full tank
  • 5th stint of 275 km
  • 15 minute stop because my wife needs to freshen up a bit
  • 6th stint of 275 km

So we stopped for a total of 1 hour and 45 minutes, bringing the total travelling time to exactly 15 hours. It was fun, especially on the left lane of the Autobahn and in the mountains on the border of Switzerland and Italy. Petrol was pumping through my veins.

Which brings me to my question. How long will it take with the i4? Any ideas?

View attachment 1518
ABRP estimates a little less than 17h (14h driving + 3h charging with 10 stops of 12~21 min per session). Simulated using the BMW i4 alpha (not sure if accurate, namely consumption and charging curve), 110% speed, 150kg extra weight (extra persons + luggage) and 7% minimum charge level. you can try other settings.

Comparing with your experience stopping time would, with this simulation results, be greater. Then if you stop more time to have a dinner probably you would charge more and avoid a charging stop (but will nonetheless take more time overall).


World Map Font Terrestrial plant Screenshot


you might want to check some Tesla Bjorn road trips on YouTube (1000km videos) where he compares in a excel in the end the travel time of a phev (kia I think) with several electrical cars, to get a sense of comparison
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
There is truth in both replies. @Jcm78 came very close but there is more to this. Much more.

Thanks to @rangerek I took a closer look at the free version of A Better Route Planner. Not a bad app after all that gives you a couple of variables to play around with. Which I did of course.
The app has an "alpha profile" for the i4, which means that it has not been finalised yet. They do not mention whether this profile fits the eDrive40 or the M50, but as they use a reference consumption of 176 wH/km at 110 km/h I expect this is the base for the final eDrive40 profile.

Changing variables like maximum speed, reference speed and your preferences for longer or shorter stints may give you great insights in the actual travel time when going long distance. I will share my insights. Keep in mind that the following app settings were "fixed" at all time:

Font Number Screenshot Rectangle Document


I don't know about you but I have been living with the idea that long distance travelling with an EV is just no fun. I consider it a sacrifice for an otherwise very entertaining car. Youtube videos by semi-pro's have reinforced this idea: long distance travelling works best at 90 km/h. But it does not seem to be true. Of course it will give you the best range, but it is definitely not the fastest way to travel over long distance. At least if ABRP is something to go by.

So let's get to the results right away. Here's our trip from Amsterdam to Rome again, this time I'm driving the BMW i4 (alpha):

Rectangle Slope Font Plot Parallel


What can we learn:
  1. The slowest way to Rome is by maintaining the speed limits at all time and never going faster than 100 km/h. Total travelling time approximately 19,5 hours. A whopping 4,5 hours slower than my 330i Touring. On the other side only 5 charging stops needed which seems to be great (but it is not, more later). Also 3 hours slower than what @Jcm78 calculated. So he already knew what I would be writing down here. But I have not finished yet. You too @Jcm78 are way too slow.
  2. Speeding up to 130 km/h where possible works very well. You will have to make one extra stop, but the extra speed more than compensates. A reduction of total travel time of 2 hours. Are you impressed?
  3. Well you shouldn't be. Main part of our voyage is going through Germany and "die unübertroffene Autobahnen". No speed limits so we can easily increase speed to 160 km/h. We save 36 minutes in driving time. A simple equation learns us that we must have passed by 416 kilometers of unlimited Autobahn in order to realise this time saving. Downside is that we need one extra stop, 7 in total. So in the end we save just an extra 21 minutes of travel time.
  4. Nothing can be gained by increasing the speed even further to (exactly) the maximum speed the eDrive40 is capable of. Pedal to the metal reduces the driving time less than expected while Porsches and Audi's are still overtaking at warp speed (250 km/h). The same number of charging stops (7) but we need to charge longer. Exactly the same travel time as in the "max 160 km/h alternative" but just maybe a lot more fun?
So a preliminary conclusion is that you should not drive like your grandma, whatever Bjorn is telling you. Increase your speed to at least the maximum speed allowed at all times. And when in Germany increase your speed to at least 160 km/h where allowed. That is if your goal is to travel as fast as possible, not if you just want to be as economic as possible. And maybe in the mean time you can actually have some fun. But never more fun than 190 km/h!

Of course there are many more insights to be found. More to follow 😀
 

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As I recall from an old video of Bjorn Nyland the optimal speed for most cars, if you want to reach your destination quickly (driving time+waiting time) was very fast. Like 170+ Km/h.
(So I guess this translates to drive as fast as possible at all times)
I don't have ABRP but fiddle with it if it is true in the simulation.

P.S. So I agree with Hans' latest post.
 

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There is truth in both replies. @Jcm78 came very close but there is more to this. Much more.

Thanks to @rangerek I took a closer look at the free version of A Better Route Planner. Not a bad app after all that gives you a couple of variables to play around with. Which I did of course.
The app has an "alpha profile" for the i4, which means that it has not been finalised yet. They do not mention whether this profile fits the eDrive40 or the M50, but as they use a reference consumption of 176 wH/km at 110 km/h I expect this is the base for the final eDrive40 profile.

Changing variables like maximum speed, reference speed and your preferences for longer or shorter stints may give you great insights in the actual travel time when going long distance. I will share my insights. Keep in mind that the following app settings were "fixed" at all time:

View attachment 1526

I don't know about you but I have been living with the idea that long distance travelling with an EV is just no fun. I consider it a sacrifice for an otherwise very entertaining car. Youtube videos by semi-pro's have reinforced this idea: long distance travelling works best at 90 km/h. But it does not seem to be true. Of course it will give you the best range, but it is definitely not the fastest way to travel over long distance. At least if ABRP is something to go by.

So let's get to the results right away. Here's our trip from Amsterdam to Rome again, this time I'm driving the BMW i4 (alpha):

View attachment 1527

What can we learn:
  1. The slowest way to Rome is by maintaining the speed limits at all time and never going faster than 100 km/h. Total travelling time approximately 19,5 hours. A whopping 4,5 hours slower than my 330i Touring. On the other side only 5 charging stops needed which seems to be great (but it is not, more later). Also 3 hours slower than what @Jcm78 calculated. So he already knew what I would be writing down here. But I have not finished yet. You too @Jcm78 are way too slow.
  2. Speeding up to 130 km/h where possible works very well. You will have to make one extra stop, but the extra speed more than compensates. A reduction of total travel time of 2 hours. Are you impressed?
  3. Well you shouldn't be. Main part of our voyage is going through Germany and "die unübertroffene Autobahnen". No speed limits so we can easily increase speed to 160 km/h. We save 36 minutes in driving time. A simple equation learns us that we must have passed by 416 kilometers of unlimited Autobahn in order to realise this time saving. Downside is that we need one extra stop, 7 in total. So in the end we save just an extra 21 minutes of travel time.
  4. Nothing can be gained by increasing the speed even further to (exactly) the maximum speed the eDrive40 is capable of. Pedal to the metal reduces the driving time less than expected while Porsches and Audi's are still overtaking at warp speed (250 km/h). The same number of charging stops (7) but we need to charge longer. Exactly the same travel time as in the "max 160 km/h alternative" but just maybe a lot more fun?
So a preliminary conclusion is that you should not drive like your grandma, whatever Bjorn is telling you. Increase your speed to at least the maximum speed allowed at all times. And when in Germany increase your speed to at least 160 km/h where allowed. That is if your goal is to travel as fast as possible, not if you just want to be as economic as possible. And maybe in the mean time you can actually have some fun. But never more fun than 190 km/h!

Of course there are many more insights to be found. More to follow 😀
That is a great exercise Hans!

Not sure what would be the impact (it depends on what charge level the simulation loads and if takes or not the charging curve into consideration) but the only thing I would change from your "fixed settings" would be the Charger Max SoC to around 70 to 80%. This is because the charging curve slows down a lot after 80% and from what I been hearing (mostly from Bjorn) it compensates more to move to the next charger and avoid the "slower charging zones" of the battery (in some cars even below 10% is a slower zone).

Analyses the iX3 on ionity
BMW iX3 - 8-100% charging at Ionity analyzed - YouTube

And here Bjorn on the iX3 versus other brands.
BMW iX3, VW ID4, Audi e-tron and MB EQC charging comparison - YouTube

BMW didn't even release data for the i4 of charging curve after 80% but you can see where it's going.
Slope Rectangle Font Parallel Engineering
 

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As I recall from an old video of Bjorn Nyland the optimal speed for most cars, if you want to reach your destination quickly (driving time+waiting time) was very fast. Like 170+ Km/h.
(So I guess this translates to drive as fast as possible at all times)
I don't have ABRP but fiddle with it if it is true in the simulation.

P.S. So I agree with Hans' latest post.
This one ;) fastest was 190kmh and charge 10%-60% - but much greater consumption as expected ;)

Optimal cruising speed for Model 3 Performance - YouTube

Font Material property Temperature Parallel Number


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That is a great exercise Hans!

Not sure what would be the impact (it depends on what charge level the simulation loads and if takes or not the charging curve into consideration) but the only thing I would change from your "fixed settings" would be the Charger Max SoC to around 70 to 80%. This is because the charging curve slows down a lot after 80% and from what I been hearing (mostly from Bjorn) it compensates more to move to the next charger and avoid the "slower charging zones" of the battery (in some cars even below 10% is a slower zone).

Analyses the iX3 on ionity
BMW iX3 - 8-100% charging at Ionity analyzed - YouTube

And here Bjorn on the iX3 versus other brands.
BMW iX3, VW ID4, Audi e-tron and MB EQC charging comparison - YouTube

BMW didn't even release data for the i4 of charging curve after 80% but you can see where it's going.
View attachment 1528
I find in my Kona EV, It charges at a higher rate between 20-70%. I make more short charging stops but I don't care about going faster and depleting my SOC, cuz charging is quicker. I've never fully timed it all out but it definitely feels quicker doing it the Bjorn way. And it gets boring , charging for too long hehehe
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
so really yolo’ing it...
I have been looking for the video(s) where Bjorn explains this. But there are just too many (long) video's on his channel so I have not been able to find it yet. Does anyone have a link?
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Nice comments, some very interesting stuff there.
Another way of looking at this is the "man versus machine" point of view.
If we look again at my Amsterdam - Rome trip with the petrol swallowing 330i (first post in this topic), we see I had to take breaks for 1h 45 min or 11,7% of total travel time.

Take note that
charging time = survival time (food and bathroom) = rest time = quality time.

What happens when we change the Sapphire Black 330i Touring for an i4 (alpha) in any color you like?

Rectangle Product Azure Slope Plot


I consider the breaks we took on our previous trip to Rome the minimum required. Allthough the machine could go much faster (2x 10 minute fuelling stop would be sufficient for the 330i) the human driver can not. By the way, our actual breaks may have been longer than what I calculated here, 30 minutes is not much for dinner.

Look at the graph, when driving the i4 (alpha) in "range anxiety mode" our resting stops are only 8,8% of total driving time. In other words, you would be on the roads for 19,5 hours and you get 5 stops of 20 minutes each. Killing! I know I would be really tired after such a journey (and the next day) and I do not even get to carry 2 adolescents in the back any more.

So speeding up is necessary in order to create more time for relaxation. Our trip should be fun, right?
Looking at it this way, again I conclude that driving as fast as you can is the intelligent thing to do. Starting at a "minimum max speed" of 130 km/h relaxation time is equal or better than what I did on my previous trip. And allthough a max speed of 190 km/h did not reduce travel time compared to 160 km/h, it does increase total quality time during your travels (that is if you and your wife are still talking to each other).

So again, don't be like your grandma. Drive your EV like you would any other car :)

One more note. The only reason we get this (slightly surprising) outcome is that the i4's charging is so efficient. Yes, the battery will be drained quickly when going at 190 km/h. But it charges really quick too. Actually it charges faster than I can have dinner. So while we are all focussing on maximum range (look at all advertising and reviews), we should actually only be focussed on getting the fastest charging EV we can afford.
 
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I have been looking for the video(s) where Bjorn explains this. But there are just too many (long) video's on his website so I have not been able to find it yet. Does anyone have a link?
Check this one at 15:20
Race between e-Niro and e-tron with @krisrifa - YouTube

What I understand is that if the battery is "cold" the charging speed is limited - what he calls "coldgate".

Ideally, if the car has in the GPS that is arriving at a charging point it should heat up the battery - I believe Tesla does this, not sure about BMW.

This "yolo" workaround consists of quick accelerations that generate high energy discharges and heat up the battery before charging.

ps: he has a couple of videos with "races" Kris Rifa in Norway where there is a mirror version of Kris, which is a fun concept. See here:
Audi E-Tron VS Kia e-Niro 1000km Range Challenge feat. @Bjørn Nyland (EV-King) - YouTube
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Check this one at 15:20
Thanks! Interesting technique. Despite this method however he is often complaining about low battery temperature and coldgate. Could there be a reason why he is not using this method every time?
 
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