[AndyJ]

Andy, that’s super helpful, thank you.

So from what you’re saying, I need to change the i4 settings to ‘charge immediately,’ and keep the Ohme Charger as it is (charge immediately), and let Octopus deal with the rest?

Yes, exactly that. Keep your eye on it when you plug it in and don’t worry when MyBMW reports the car is charging as Octopus should pause that fairly quickly - the few minutes charge at full price amounts to not very much at all. If it sets a plan that is outside the 11;30pm to 5:30am cheap slot keep a note and check your bill: you should find you are being charged 7.5p at that time as well.
I sometimes get messages from the Octopus app that it can’t interact with the car but I just ignore those as long as it has set up a plan and paused the charge because it’s never failed to work (once I got it sorted!)

 

[AndyJ]

And another thing I’ve just discovered but which is front and centre in the Octopus App. It has a charge state, defaulting to 80%, which overrides what is set in the car. I’m off on a road trip of 170miles and set the charge limit on the car to 100% not realising that Octopus had a limit. Male blindness. I now have a SoC of 80% and a range of 181miles! Fortunately that should go up as 140mile are motorway

 

[Iridium]

Can you override the App to allow a higher percentage? If not then it’s probably worth messaging Octopus.

I find that my range comes down a little faster on motorways as not much speed change - except on the M25 where it’s stop/start and I use B mode.

I have also had a reply from Octopus about data collection….

In terms of the information we need access to, for the charger, we require access to the charging data in order to provide you with accurate and optimised charging schedules. This allows us to take advantage of cheaper electricity rates during off-peak hours, helping you save on your energy costs.

As for the vehicle, we collect information such as the state of charge and charging status. This information is used to optimize your charging schedule and ensure that your vehicle is charged efficiently and cost-effectively.

Regarding location data, we only collect information about the vehicle's location when it is at home. This is to ensure that we can provide you with the most accurate and relevant charging recommendations based on your specific circumstances. We do not record or store any location data beyond this purpose.

Rest assured, we take cyber security very seriously. We have robust measures in place to protect your data and ensure its confidentiality. We do not process or pass any data to third parties for any purposes.

To me this at least clarifies the siuation about what it is they are collecting and why.

 

[MINi4]

Can you override the App to allow a higher percentage? If not then it’s probably worth messaging Octopus.

The Octopus app charge limit can be set between 10% and 100% in 5% increments. The achieved charge will ultimately be the lower of either the Octopus App or what is set in the BMW.

 

[MINi4]

To me this at least clarifies the siuation about what it is they are collecting and why.

Time to switch to Octopus with a referral? 😉

 

[BMW_Manc]

Superb assistance. Really appreciated. You deserve the commission from Octopus!

 

[MINi4]

And another thing I’ve just discovered but which is front and centre in the Octopus App. It has a charge state, defaulting to 80%, which overrides what is set in the car. I’m off on a road trip of 170miles and set the charge limit on the car to 100% not realising that Octopus had a limit. Male blindness. I now have a SoC of 80% and a range of 181miles! Fortunately that should go up as 140mile are motorway

Your post was a couple of hours ago, around 10am? If you had set ‘ready by 11am’ (the latest time available), IOG would have given you another hour (7kWh / circa 8.5%) from 10am to 11am.

 

[AndyJ]

The Octopus app charge limit can be set between 10% and 100% in 5% increments. The achieved charge will ultimately be the lower of either the Octopus App or what is set in the BMW.

Yes I can override it but I missed it because man search. It was right in front of my eyes so I didn’t see it. Anyway, arrived with 15% so I didn’t miss the extra 20%.

 

[MINi4]

For those who maybe aren’t aware and are with Octopus Energy (any tariff so long as you’ve a smart meter), an Octopus Home Mini is available to order free-of-charge.

Basically it is a wifi connected, electrical plug in device takes real-time data from your smart meter, making it available in the Octopus app wherever you are. Live usage, graphs for daily, weekly, monthly, annual, etc which is so much easier to view and navigate wherever you are compared to the In-Home-Display. I received mine within 2 weeks of ordering (back in September). Meet the Octopus Home Mini

 

[Jamshir]

Can I hijack this thread? Anyone got octopus and solar panels?

I have
Solar PV
A non smart meter (its an ancient one that winds backwards when its sunny 😁)
A 6 year old non smart pod point charger
No EV at the moment, but an i4 on order.
Octopus are my energy supplier

Ok, so 1st question is should I get a smart meter? My current export is "deemed export" i.e. I get paid for 50% of my generation whether I use it myself or export. If I get a smart meter will I lose this (and only get actual export) and more importantly instead of winding backwards for net metering I will pay 30p per KWh used and only get 7p per KWh exported, instead of export reducing my consumption at 30p.

However, a smart meter would give me access to 7.5p electricity for the car overnight. I cant figure out if I would win or lose.

2) is there a means to match car charging to spare solar generation in the day?

3) can I get smart tariffs with only a smart meter or do I need a smarter charger too?

4) anyone got a home battery? I think I can estimate how much solar it would save for more expensive times. Thats not a great payback, but how much can you make buying nighttime grid power and using it at expensive times or exporting to grid? If thats substantial it would tip the balance on a battery investment

 

[MINi4]

Ok, so 1st question is should I get a smart meter? My current export is "deemed export" i.e. I get paid for 50% of my generation whether I use it myself or export. If I get a smart meter will I lose this (and only get actual export) and more importantly instead of winding backwards for net metering I will pay 30p per KWh used and only get 7p per KWh exported, instead of export reducing my consumption at 30p.

With a smart meter export, you’ll get a separate export MPAN (two separate meter readings) which enables having different import and export utility companies. However, Octopus export rate is a relatively good 15p with Octopus Intelligent Go (import 30p peak, 7.5p off peak) and a smart meter is a prerequisite.

There isn’t a one answer fits all as everyone’s set up and circumstances are different. You’d need a spreadsheet to calculate with various parameters such as PV kWp, home daily kWh consumption, various import/export costs.

2) is there a means to match car charging to spare solar generation in the day?

There are various chargers that can do this, but it’s simpler and cheaper (no additional new charger) to just export excess at 15p then charge at 7.5p off peak.

3) can I get smart tariffs with only a smart meter or do I need a smarter charger too?

For Octopus (I’ve no experience with other suppliers) you need either an Octopus compatible smart charger or a compatible car (of which all electric BMWs are). So basically, no need for a new smart charger and I use a dumb 2019 Wallbox with my i4.

4) anyone got a home battery? I think I can estimate how much solar it would save for more expensive times. Thats not a great payback, but how much can you make buying nighttime grid power and using it at expensive times or exporting to grid? If thats substantial it would tip the balance on a battery investment

Again depends on your home consumption and a spreadsheet to help. During peak times, you’ll save basically 30p (assuming enough battery capacity) then off peak cost 7.5p to charge them up again. In sunnier times, batteries will require less off peak top up. If the batteries have remaining charge in the evening, you can of course export at 15p then charge them up later at 7.5p. Complicating matters further (but beneficial with batteries) are the winter energy saving sessions. During the 6x1hr test session in Nov/Dec, Octopus paid £2.25/kWh exported. During 2x1.5hr live events, £4/kWh exported! Again, depending on the battery inverter (typical range) max kW export capability, these sessions could bring in a total £90 to £130.

Can’t really even give a rough ROI time as there are too many variables specific to your individual circumstances.

Also, with a smart meter, Octopus and an iOS device, Octo-Aid is a free third party app that presents data usage (import, export, gas) in lots of user friendly layouts Home | Octo Aid.

 

[Jamshir]

With a smart meter export, you’ll get a separate export MPAN (two separate meter readings) which enables having different import and export utility companies. However, Octopus export rate is a relatively good 15p with Octopus Intelligent Go (import 30p peak, 7.5p off peak) and a smart meter is a prerequisite.

There isn’t a one answer fits all as everyone’s set up and circumstances are different. You’d need a spreadsheet to calculate with various parameters such as PV kWp, home daily kWh consumption, various import/export costs.


There are various chargers that can do this, but it’s simpler and cheaper (no additional new charger) to just export excess at 15p then charge at 7.5p off peak.


For Octopus (I’ve no experience with other suppliers) you need either an Octopus compatible smart charger or a compatible car (of which all electric BMWs are). So basically, no need for a new smart charger and I use a dumb 2019 Wallbox with my i4.


Again depends on your home consumption and a spreadsheet to help. During peak times, you’ll save basically 30p (assuming enough battery capacity) then off peak cost 7.5p to charge them up again. In sunnier times, batteries will require less off peak top up. If the batteries have remaining charge in the evening, you can of course export at 15p then charge them up later at 7.5p. Complicating matters further (but beneficial with batteries) are the winter energy saving sessions. During the 6x1hr test session in Nov/Dec, Octopus paid £2.25/kWh exported. During 2x1.5hr live events, £4/kWh exported! Again, depending on the battery inverter (typical range) max kW export capability, these sessions could bring in a total £90 to £130.

Can’t really even give a rough ROI time as there are too many variables specific to your individual circumstances.

Also, with a smart meter, Octopus and an iOS device, Octo-Aid is a free third party app that presents data usage (import, export, gas) in lots of user friendly layouts Home | Octo Aid

Thanks, very helpful.

The downside of my deemed export is that I get a rubbish rate, hadnt factored in that I can get 15p normal export price which suits having properly metered export.

And good to know there is enough smarts in the car that I can keep my dumb charger.

Back to the spreadsheets then. My main unknown (without a smart meter) is how much of my total solar output coincides with energy use 🤷‍♂️

 

[MINi4]

Thanks, very helpful.

The downside of my deemed export is that I get a rubbish rate, hadnt factored in that I can get 15p normal export price which suits having properly metered export.

And good to know there is enough smarts in the car that I can keep my dumb charger.

Back to the spreadsheets then. My main unknown (without a smart meter) is how much of my total solar output coincides with energy use 🤷‍♂️

I initially used this as a basis, scaled the output according to the kWp, guessing max/min depending on UK location, panel orientation to south, shading, etc and dividing each adjusted month by the number of days to get the typical daily generation.

 

[Jamshir]

I initially used this as a basis, scaled the output according to the kWp, guessing max/min depending on UK location, panel orientation to south, shading, etc and dividing each adjusted month by the number of days to get the typical daily generation.
View attachment 37822

I have a wifi dongle on my inverter, so I can see what I generate. (Its pretty close to those models, maybe I beat them by a smidge) But no smart meter to track how and when I use energy.

 

[MINi4]

I have a wifi dongle on my inverter, so I can see what I generate. (Its pretty close to those models, maybe I beat them by a smidge) But no smart meter to track how and when I use energy.

Electricity bills should have monthly kWh consumed, so average per day of course. Assuming you don’t use much between 23:30 to 05:30 I’d assume a base power draw between 150W to 250W (depending on router, fridge, freezer, alarm, security cameras, appliances on stand by, etc) over those 6 hours (so 200W would be 1.2kWh consumption), the rest being peak kWh.

How much you use daily between what would be peak/off peak is all that’s needed for the calculations.

 

[Iridium]

If you take a series of meter readings over a few days then that will give you an average consumption per day. Mine is around 400W/hr but peaks are over 3.5kW/h when the oven or washing machine heaters are on.

If you do decide to change your charge point then you can now only buy smart ones. Dumb charge points are no longer permitted to be sold or installed.

We went whole hog and had smart meters installed a year ago as part of a longer term plan to install a PV/Battery system in the next year or so. My Hypervolt 3.0 Pro supports this type of install.

 

[Jamshir]

If you take a series of meter readings over a few days then that will give you an average consumption per day. Mine is around 400W/hr but peaks are over 3.5kW/h when the oven or washing machine heaters are on.

If you do decide to change your charge point then you can now only buy smart ones. Dumb charge points are no longer permitted to be sold or installed.

We went whole hog and had smart meters installed a year ago as part of a longer term plan to install a PV/Battery system in the next year or so. My Hypervolt 3.0 Pro supports this type of install.

Thanks for the help. Which would be enough to estimate my peak/offpeak demand.

However, just to be clear, I'm trying to figure out my power usage while its sunny, not my peak time usage.

At the moment if I generate 10kwh then use 10kwh within the same month, I get billed zero because the 10 of generation winds my old school meter backwards. I still get paid for unmetered deemed export even if I export nothing.

But with smart metering, if I'm generating at the same time as using, those generated kwh save me buying grid electric at 30p, but if my generation mismatches I might sell at 15p at noon then buy back at 30p at 7pm. This all occurs outside the peak/economy tariff periods.

So I will lose money (excess generation x 30 minus 15) from having a smart meter. Trying to weigh up if the other gains (cheap EV charging) will outweigh that.

I think it probably will.

Shame the i4 doesnt support V2L with that I would need very little on-peak import.

 

[MINi4]

Thanks for the help. Which would be enough to estimate my peak/offpeak demand.

However, just to be clear, I'm trying to figure out my power usage while its sunny, not my peak time usage.

At the moment if I generate 10kwh then use 10kwh within the same month, I get billed zero because the 10 of generation winds my old school meter backwards. I still get paid for unmetered deemed export even if I export nothing.

But with smart metering, if I'm generating at the same time as using, those generated kwh save me buying grid electric at 30p, but if my generation mismatches I might sell at 15p at noon then buy back at 30p at 7pm. This all occurs outside the peak/economy tariff periods.

So I will lose money (excess generation x 30 minus 15) from having a smart meter. Trying to weigh up if the other gains (cheap EV charging) will outweigh that.

I think it probably will.

Shame the i4 doesnt support V2L with that I would need very little on-peak import.

The generation in the summer months won’t be enough to significantly charge a car unless you have lots of PV panels. A normal 4kWp system may give you around 3.7kW charging power, and assuming no clouds and 100% sent to the car, to increase the i4 40eDrive SOC from 20% to 80% will take over 15 hours (or adding 12 miles of range after every hour).

Also how many miles will you drive per month? With an i4, you’ll end up driving it more than you anticipate as most of us in the forum have found out. Remember, if you charge the car with cheap Intelligent Octopus Go (IOG) EV charging, and you’ll likely gain cheaper electricity in the evenings (as per other posts here). Another option as you indicated is a home battery, maybe a small kWh battery specifically to cover your peak circa 16:30-19:30 usage.

Shame no car does V2L yet - I’d buy a cheap scrapper/write-off for that!

 

[Jamshir]

Charging the car directly from solar is only a small win, as you say, not enough output to make much difference.

The smart meter vs dumb is something like this.

I generate 3400 Kwh per year, get a feed in tariff which doesnt change based on metering so lets ignore for now.

I get 50% deemed export x6p so £100 per year. And I get 3400 x 28p knocked off my purchased power , £950 saved. So 1050 per year saved

With a smart meter, lets assume my real export would be 50% (thats what I'm attempting to calculate) so 1700x 15p export = £250, plus 1700 saved off consumption x28p = 425, total £675. So the smart meter has me down £375 before we start.

Then the EV tariff - 10K miles at 3.3 miles per kwh = 3000 Kwh. At full price thats £840, on an EV Tariff of 7.5p thats £225. So I save £600.

So £600 is worth a couple of hundred more than the £375 I lost by having a smart meter. But my everyday electricity gets more expensive by say 3p on the EV tariff which would cost me £120. So its all getting a bit close, hence the calculations...

However smart meter + EV tariff is probably the right way

• saves a bit anyway
• more honest
• I didnt count for losses or a heavy foot or preconditioning in the 3.3 miles/Kwh
• I often run the washing machine + tumble at night anyway (whack it on before bed)
• room to optimise with a battery too
• small £ compared to the cost of the car in the end.
• phew! Too much overthinking going on.

Anyway I think Hyundai EV6 does V2L already.

 

[MINi4]

However smart meter + EV tariff is probably the right way

Anyway I think Hyundai EV6 does V2L already.

Glad that you’ve reached a conclusion that you’re happy with.

V2L Hyundai limited to 3.6kW though, I really meant V2H with min 6kW ideally, or something like this soon? 🤔