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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Saw this posted on another forum and it surprised me in a good way. I would not have guessed the I4's efficiency is as good as it is!

 

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I don't like secret sauce™ with algorithm™ and experts, it tastes like bull shit ;)


Here is the efficiency ranking posted on this forum, according to the WLTP range and battery capacity (we don't care about the price of electricity: it's the same for all cars)
There is a big difference between e40 and M50:
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Also, efficiency to me means how effectively the car uses the power residing in its battery i.e. how far can it go (km/kwh). I'm not sure recharge times should be part of this algorithym. That said, I like watching electrifying.com reviews, especially when presented by Nicki :love:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
View attachment 2761


I don't like secret sauce™ with algorithm™ and experts, it tastes like bull shit ;)


Here is the efficiency ranking posted on this forum, according to the WLTP range and battery capacity (we don't care about the price of electricity: it's the same for all cars)
There is a big difference between e40 and M50:
View attachment 2762
So despite the fact you think the electrifying.com algorithm sounds like BS, what you posted has the same top 3 in the ‘BS chart’ in the top 4 in the WLTP chart. Doesn’t sound like too much BS to me. ;)

And for those that never drove BEVs (I’m on my 3rd), you’ll soon learn the importance of charging speed, when on the road, that’s factored into the ‘BS charts’. I’ve watched long range road tests where the objective was to time a bunch of contenders going from point A to point B, observing speed limits. This was a real world test that factored in range & charging speed. Cars with better range made fewer charging stops than those with poorer range. So charging speed becomes a very important factor, particularly for cars that needed to make more frequent stops.

Contenders, among others, included an Audi e-Tron (one of the worst ranges) vs a Tesla Model 3 (one of the best). The Model 3 gets much better EPA & WLTP scores than the e-Tron, but despite that the e-Tron arrived at about the same time because of its faster and more linear charging speeds. The Tesla starts off charging fast but quickly slows down, making the charging time much longer. The Audi starts off fast and stays fast right to near the end. So many consider charging speeds almost as important as range. The Lucid Air has a huge range (and price tag) but also extremely fast charging speeds. It sounds like our upcoming i4 has a nice combination of both, even if it’s not ‘chart topping’.

So I actually think for road tripping the electrifying.com algorithm is anything but BS. Those that have done these trips in BEVs will appreciate that. There are even more subtleties in efficiency, like cold weather performance. Two cars with identical range can perform significantly different in cold weather. So ultimately the range number is just one of many factors in efficiency and performance.

Finally, there’s the validity of the range number itself, WLTP or EPA. Some cars have shown to significantly underperform their range numbers (Tesla, I’m looking at you). Others, like the Porsche Taycan, dramatically outperform its stated range. I’m really looking forward to seeing how the i4 does in real world tests. With any luck it might outperform its numbers. :)
 

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So despite the fact you think the electrifying.com algorithm sounds like BS, what you posted has the same top 3 in the ‘BS chart’ in the top 4 in the WLTP chart. Doesn’t sound like too much BS to me. ;)
yes, we have the same results with a simple division, it's not worth talking about algorithms, secrets, and experts 🦄
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yes, we have the same results with a simple division, it's not worth talking about algorithms, secrets, and experts 🦄
But the point is that they are using an algorithm that combines range, charging speeds and other factors that impact range (e.g. heat pumps). So call it something else if you like, a ‘formula’, but it combines more factors than range itself. And if you’ve never driven a BEV, you’ll soon see how important those other factors are. :)
 

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But the point is that they are using an algorithm that combines range, charging speeds and other factors that impact range (e.g. heat pumps). So call it something else if you like, a ‘formula’, but it combines more factors than range itself. And if you’ve never driven a BEV, you’ll soon see how important those other factors are. :)
Indeed, I'm driving an EV since 6 years :)
All the factors that impact range are already taken into account during the WLTP test, I'm sure that their algo is a joke.

Their class system (A++, A+,...E) is copied from the European energy efficiency classes, but it doesn't seem to reflect the numerical values. It's nonsense to attribute A++ to a TM3 and to an I4, I4 is worse on all points, while the i3, which is more efficient, has a B 🤨
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Actually it's the WLPT numbers that are a joke. Nobody gets those actual numbers in the real world. The EPA numbers are far closer to real world. Why the WLTP doesn't adjust their nutty procedures is beyond me. Everyone knows they're not real world. Even the EPA #s are, for most cars, 'best case' scenarios.

As for the electrifying algorithms, we'll agree to disagree. The fact that they took the rating system (A++, A- etc.) from the European energy classes has nothing whatever to do with the actual grading components that go into it. Disagreeing with the European classes doesn't have any relationship to electrifying.com's system.

Because car A gets better range in the summer than car B, doesn't mean that will hold true in the winter. Car B may very well do better in the winter. So things like heat pumps and their efficiency can be very important. Neither the EPA or the WLPT take that into account. We need independent testing to give us those results. So I appreciate (I know you don't) when someone like electrifying.com makes the effort to test different variables that are actually very real world scenarios.
 

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Not really sure , how they can fully come to this conclusion as no one really has test driven the edrive 40. Things always look good on paper and graphs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Isn't it possible they got a pre-production tester to run through these tests? That's not an unusual scenario for a not yet released car.
 

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Isn't it possible they got a pre-production tester to run through these tests? That's not an unusual scenario for a not yet released car.
I think they don't do tests, but use the manufacturer's data.

Not really sure , how they can fully come to this conclusion as no one really has test driven the edrive 40. Things always look good on paper and graphs.
Question is: how can they talk about "the i4" ? e40 and M50 don't have the same energy efficiency
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well is they didn't do the actual tests, then I agree, it's all just conjecture. I do think when all is said and done, the e40 will have one of the better efficiency ratings among BEVs.
 
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