Super weird news ... why even release the iDrive 8.5 in a brand new car? Why not use iDrive 9 and bring 8.5 to "old" models.

Also ... how would I feel when I just ordered the new 7 series and see this?

 

Super weird news ... why even release the iDrive 8.5 in a brand new car? Why not use iDrive 9 and bring 8.5 to "old" models.

Looks like 8.5 is still Linux-based so will maybe run on existing hardware. 9.0 is Android-based to might be using all new hardware. Easier to make that fit into a new model than an old one.

 

Probably won’t apply to the current i4 but maybe we’ll see this in future models (LCI?).

View attachment 21657

Not a good sign here:

Lastly, not all iDrive 8 models will not be able to upgrade to 8.5 because different hardware is required. The list is not complete yet but it will definitely include the latest 3 Series sedan.

 

I think it shows very well how much traditional car makers struggle with software. While Tesla keeps updating old vehicles like a champ BMW manages to get incompatible to updates in just a year.

I hope at some point all car makers understand that they need to get better.

Maybe I now should hope I don't get my i4 this year to get the LCI .

 

I hope at some point all car makers understand that they need to get better.

...and the best way to do this is to choose a core foundational technology build by a technology company.

 

This iDrive 8 to iDrive 8.5 is very similar to the iDrive 5 to iDrive 6 switch - same hardware, different skin.

 

No apparently some iDrive8 cars will be left behind per this article

The Next BMW iDrive Will Debut In The 5 Series

It will be called iDrive 8.5, not iDrive 9.

carbuzz.com

“Lastly, not all iDrive 8 models will not be able to upgrade to 8.5 because different hardware is required. The list is not complete yet but it will definitely include the latest 3 Series sedan.”

 

Exactly, and from some posts I saw they seem to use Intel Atoms ( ) so for me there is no immediate reason to not support Android Automotive except ... additional efforts to backport stuff.

 

This article mentions that using full on Android Automotive would leave their own engineers unable to make critical fixes/end up waiting on Google: The Next BMW iDrive Will Debut In The 5 Series

 

Yeah, I am not sure if it's more an excuse and they don't want to say "we lose control otherwise". Also it's an EU company, they probably don't want to get into GPDR issues with their cars for using Google.

But as said that's the pessimistic view I have about "traditional" companies and anything IT.

 

I'd like them to bridge the gap between idrive 7 and 8 first.
I miss the auto steering heating in the idrive7
Also the idrive7 instrument cluster auto changes to assisted driving mode when using adp. Idrive8 doesnt seem to.

The more frequently they upgrade hardware, the more fragmented their software will be. I guess having the next version of hardware on the roadman makes sense, but having the next two while the current production one needs work is really weird.

 

The more frequently they upgrade hardware, the more fragmented their software will be. I guess having the next version of hardware on the roadman makes sense, but having the next two while the current production one needs work is really weird.

This is what bothers me too. I'm not particularly bothered about having the latest version of the OS as long as they continue to refine the version I have. The i4 is a new car and will be in production for many years, it doesn't make sense to abandon i8 now and solely concentrate on a version that will never come to the i4.

OMG, I mentioned 'sense' and 'BMW' in the same sentence...we're doomed 😔

 

frustrating when so many of us don't even have our cars yet that were ordered a year or more ago...

 

If the i4 isn't supported this is the dumbest thing I've ever read and I actually lost brain cells. BMW management never ceases to surprise me.

 

Maybe someone can call Genius and ask ? I think I can't get that information out of folks even if I pay for all the beer in the evening

 

It feels like I am buying an outdated car already but mine probably is delivered in a year when they announce OS 10

 

Yes, but then OS 10 comes with a car you can buy not before 2030

 

Having lived through computer OS updates since Windows 1.04, what exactly do people feel they are missing out on?

Rarely do OS updates introduce something radically new, normally it's just the same old crap with different makeup on.

 

IDrive is not really like Windows or iOS or any other computer OS. It doesn't run third party apps. It includes literally all the functionality your car has. Because it's not just the stuff you see on your screen, but literally everything that is software controlled. Which in the i4 is everything. So what are we missing? Literally any and all features that are not limited by requiring new hardware. Could be anything from refined park assist to more efficient and better BMS logic to safer DAPP or Plug and Charge support.

This is not a small deal and people aren't being petty by wanting their $50-85k cars to get software support for more than two years.

 

My biggest fear isn't in the next let's say 3-4 years it will be fine. But what if charging standards change and I don't get updates because OS 8? For example my 10 year old Hyundai station wagon doesn't do GPS anymore ... just because it's missing a software update ... not because something is wrong with the hardware.

 

You make a valid point @CheddarKungPao but I suppose I am just not that excited about the tech in cars (and I work in IT). 90% of the pleasure of owning the i4 is driving it. For example, I'm not really interested in it parking for me, I can do that all on my own, or steering the car, I can do that all on my own. I previously owned a 15 year old Mercedes E Class which was still as nice to drive as when I got it. I've got all the tech on my M50 but I would say the only thing that I would hate to lose is ACC which is genuinely useful in congested driving. The rest is all nice to have but there aren't any game changers for me, so missing out on refinements to stuff I'm not that bothered about already is no great loss.

People seem to be obsessed with making every peripheral action a tiny bit easier. I can't believe the enormous threads about how best to unlock your car and which of the current methods people favour and the massive inconvenience of having to carry a fob! I'm amazed I've managed to get to 60+ without being able to open my car with an Apple watch - well done me, have a gold star ⭐. These are first world issues taken to extreme. Are our lives so without meaning that we can't just enjoy what we have got, rather than obsess about something that we don't have and is a teeny, tiny bit better 😞

And this all assumes that BMW won't continue to improve whatever OS we end up with on the i4, despite it still being a production car.

 

I hear you. My ideal EV would be indistinguishable on the interior from say a Porsche 993 or 964 or something. Hardware dials, buttons, etc.

But that said, the i4 has a lot of computer controlled systems and BMW will likely refine these over time. Tesla sends out many software improvements to as many cars as can support them. Much like Apple does with iPhones and MacBooks. If BMW really wants to claw back the market share that Tesla has taken from them, they need to get on board with it. Not because of old farts like us, but because that's what is available on the market and what discerning buyers will expect.

 

I fully agree with you @CheddarKungPao, I am a petrolhead since my childhood my dad influenced that a lot . And that's why I own an F-Type V8 and a Miata 30th Anniversary. So driving experience is first and that's why I choose the i4 M50 (I drove the M3, EV6, EQS, EQE, ID4) because for an EV and in my range I want to afford the car just drives amazing.

BUT I am also working in IT and I realise much of the limitations the i4 has are just unwillingness of adopting to a new world which is all about software.

 

Here you see the real difference between Tesla and BMW. BMW is coming from mechanical cars design and has a long tradition and experience in building beautiful cars, but with little attention to SW. Tesla has built a computer on 4 wheels, Sw oriented but the lack of how the mechanical part has to be designed is clearly seen…

 

Well that was fast. The paint on iDrive 8 isn't even dry and we all know there are still many quirks and bugs to workout there, but for 8.5 and 9.0 to be announced, seems like they're intent on pissing off a lot of early adopters.

It's all pointing to the same place and that's a lack of real will to do software right -- it's a shame because the car is wonderful.

I think for current generation i4 iX and i7 owners, we all need to prepare for a mismatched software and hardware nightmare where we have BMW touting the latest and greatest features, only to be sorely disappointed because we don't have the ECU, DME, or whatever module or hardware bit not in our cars to support it. To some degree, it's been happening all along from iDrive's early days but we still had a good amount of analog buttons and dials and I didn't care as much because all the basics were met. It's different now.

Maybe enterprising entrepreneurs will see the opportunity to fill in the gap with hardware upgrades and other add-ons. In particular, I love how I was able to add CarPlay to my aging 435i by adding a module that hijacked the screen and some other hardware buttons. It wasn't great but it worked and it gave the car a step function jump in usefulness.

Net of it is: I do not want to buy a new car in 4-6 yrs because of software...it would be a shame.

 

I wrote to BMW Switzerland to ask them, when they're estimating to bring 8.5 to the i4.....I keep you updated.....

 

Got the answer today that they forwarded the question to BMW Munich. So still waiting....

 

What many probably don't realize is that the change only takes place in the non-visible area (AAOS).
Its still a "BMW specific infotainment experience" and not like a Polestar with the full GAS.

 

Under the hood it's clear that a regular end user could care less about what's there (we're the exception).

A related question: by transitioning to AAOS, what does that do to the CarPlay side of things? Does AAOS allow interop out of the gate or will there be a full rewrite to get CarPlay natively integrated? Apple's track record of interop with Google is shakey at best.

 

Between this and BMW saying they won't be using the new full instrument version of CarPlay this i4 might be my last BMW. I love cars but I also love tech and BMW is showing that they aren't thinking as new about SW as they claimed when the iX and i4 launched. Owning the i4 so far really has shown me that BMWs talk about modern thinking when it came to the SW parts were just that, talk.

Apart from certain features I would have expected the newest OS to come to older model years as well, anything else is just getting the middle finger from BMW to add incentives for buying a new car and having your current one depreciate more. Currently it seems it is the ones doing Android Automotive that are the only ones who actually are doing a more modern approach when it comes to software, and Tesla of course. Hopefully we can say the same for the manufacturers that add support for the new full screen CarPlay Apple is launching, still holding out hope that Audi will do that so I can get a German premium EV with a modern software solution next time around.

Yesterday I had to spend 2 hours waiting at the dealer for a SW update to fix some problems, I joked with them about that 5 years ago I could get a software fix pushed to my car sitting in my garage with a call to the service department and wondered when BMW will join this century. BMW haven't even managed to send a single normal OTA to my car, let alone one initiated by the service department.

 

Between this and BMW saying they won't be using the new full instrument version of CarPlay this i4 might be my last BMW. I love cars but I also love tech and BMW is showing that they aren't thinking as new about SW as they claimed when the iX and i4 launched. Owning the i4 so far really has shown me that BMWs talk about modern thinking when it came to the SW parts were just that, talk.

This "modern" full CarPlay with nostalgic dusty round speedometer? This is also only a graphic overlay of the system and probably brings disadvantages.

and regarding Android with complete Google integration, just ask around in the Polestar forum, the opinions are extremely critical of how bad it works.

Where'd you find this? I can't find any information about 8.5 coming to i4

German pages but we will see if its true.

 

------

 

I won’t bother with a rebuttal for those items with which I disagree, but I will say CarPlay support in that case has nothing to do with Apple (just like your multi screen complaint). It’s implemented by the display software.

 

If it's an official statement from BMW that certain models will remain on idrive8 and not something misquoted by a journalist (most articles refers to the same bmwblog post). Then my best guess is that i4 and 3 LCI will remain on idrive 8 whereas 2 series, i7 and IX will be upgrade to idrive8.5

Reason is that the later is on a never hardware platform/service pack 21 compared with i4 which is a blend of SP18/21.

"Service pack 2018 with BMW OS8 The G26 BEV marked the introduction of service pack 2018 with BMW OS8. To this end, the following components of service pack 2021 were integrated into the vehicle electrical system with service pack 2018:

• Headunit High 4 (HU-H4) (replaces the Head Unit High 3 (HU-H3))
• Telematic Communication Box 4 (TCB4) (replaces the TCB2 or TCB3)
• Multifunctional display (MFD) (contains the driver's display FAD, the Central information display CID and the Driver Camera System DCS)
• Instrument cluster control unit KOMBI (replaces the instrument cluster together with the driver’s display FAD)

Integration of these components into the electrical system enables introduction of BMW Operating System 8 and the Personal eSIM. Some of the functions introduced with BMW Operating System 8 are not available in service pack 2018 with BMW OS8, e.g. BMW Digital Key Plus Navigation with Augmented View My Modes Interior camera"

Service-Pack-20XX.pdf (wright-company.net)

 

To my understanding 8.5 will come to all OS8 cars, that will be produced starting on the switching date. So already existing cars cannot be retrofitted, and new cars will get the new Head Unit.
But judging from the differences in technology between SP18 und SP21, might as well be true that they will not fit the newest head unit on SP18 cars - which would honestly really suck!

 

I would say not updating older model years of the i4 to 8.5 already sucks and shows how BMWs talk about putting energy into being modern with software, OTAs and whatnot was just bull**** from their side.

Hopefully that won’t be the case though and they give 8.5 to all 8.0 cars.

 

The hate is a bit over the top here? Seems like a lot of jumping to conclusions about a lot of stuff. BMW won't mindlessly ignore the fact that VW's ex-CEO lost his job over software just last spring. So we might want to wait and see what REALLY happens? "Nah! Must hate / rant now.... regret later.... maybe. If BMW fixes our presumption of error... it will be BECAUSE of our rants!" Okay, maybe. Just saying.

 

You are right. BMW has a roadmap and they will certainly fix our “not compliant and errors of the Sw release OS8” problems…
But do not forget that Car SW is still rather new for everybody and the same for BMW. In between there is also another problem to consider. With the chip shortage and the war in between, Sw designers had to adapt their Sw for different chips there were fining on the market. This is certainly not immediate and the supply chain and production process is suffering.
Other part of the game is the scalability of the Platform. Hope BMW will design platforms which can at least host SW of 2 to 3 generations via OTA… (of course only related to SW enhancements…)

 

@BMWdav They already confirmed that existing cars will not be upgradable via OTA, as a new head unit will be needed. Nothing regarding a paid upgrade yet though, so maybe they will at least offer that for those that really want 8.5.

 

I think that was just regarding 9, not 8.5