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Do you have OS 8.5? Then you have MGU22 if not you got MGU21
 
Wonder if MGU22 will be able to run 9 or if that will require new hardware yet again :geek:
 
OK so am I stuck on 8.0 forever? Does anyone know what the roadmap is for the "older" cars (mine was built in June :rolleyes:).
 
OK so am I stuck on 8.0 forever? Does anyone know what the roadmap is for the "older" cars (mine was built in June :rolleyes:).
Cars that are 8.0 will get updates for 8.0 but will never get 8.5.
 
Wonder if MGU22 will be able to run 9 or if that will require new hardware yet again :geek:
I wouldn't bet on getting 9. 9 is Android based while 8 is just Linux without Android. It would be a heavy lift to do this port and BMW doesn't seem to be interested when it's a lot of work.
 
As far as I know no car gets any meaningful significant update after being sold. The only new feature that I saw in i4 is better options to select EV charging station in routes in BMW maps. Given that it is an isolated feature, I believe there is a business reason for it.

My expectation is that he car will not get any improvement and if updates to infotainment are important to you, you can buy a new car.

One of the reasons why I bought the car is iDrive 8 and apparently I’m not the only one that values tech in the car, otherwise BMW would not have made iDrive a huge screen. For example they would have sticked with a mechanical gauge cluster. The whole point of having a screen is that you can customize the information that you see and of course improvements which evolve over time are nice to have.
That's not necessarily the "whole point." Having a programmable UI with a touch interface has very different reasons than simply customizing information.

The car has received quite a number of improvements. I've had mine since last November, have had 2 or 3 updates (one OTA, one or two at the dealer), and have seen improved charging (the charging curve moved up significantly), changes to driver assistance, and some fixes for issues. I don't understand the misstatement made here so frequently that there aren't any updates to iDrive 8... We'll get a new OTA shortly which has some more fixes, including for the Drive Malfunction bug.

@tonyquan, any comments on this?
 
Their self driving solution is incredible advanced give the constraints of using only video cameras with no radar, lidar or other sensors that would increase costs.
Nothing advanced about a system that confuses a semi trailer for a road sign and results in the owner losing their head (physically), or about your Autopilot purposely running into stopped emergency vehicles at the side of the road. This happened.

Tesla Vision idea was silly, and by Teslas own admission, they initially removed the front radar and said “vision only” then added the radar back when the realized the idea was ridiculous. So you’re incorrect, it’s not vision only and there’s nothing advanced about it. As it stands today it will not pass the requirements for Hands free driving, you’ll always have to keep your hands on the steering wheel. The system also has no clue if you’re touching the steering wheel or paying attention to the road. There are no redundancies built and it’s completely inadequate.
 
Are you certain about this? Have you worked on this level of software or have inside knowledge? While it seems to me that your statement may be accurate, it may also be in accurate, depending on the specifics of a given manufacturer's approach.
Modern software pipelines build automatically release candidates builds that you can install at any point in time. This is needed to be able to quickly mitigate a bad release in case some non minor defect made it to customers. If one changes only the code of the Home Screen the code of the firmware will not be updated. All the firmwares of all subsystems might be reinstalled during an OS update in naive systems even when they have no updates. This is not ideal (and not a good sign) but there should be also in place mechanisms to validate firmware updates and make them as atomically as possible to prevent or make very hard bricking . In a case these limitation related to bricking have more to do with the frequency of updates and their brick rate. When you install a build on i4 every 6 months this happens regardless whether there was an update to the apps or not. So this is not an excuse to not update apps. Also sub-par manufacture approach doesn’t excuse them from the rest of the in

The degree to which a software can be continuously updated (CD) is an important trait to gauge its maturity and its sophistication.

I have tangential first hand experience with automotive software and I had some secondhand reports on it. Long experience in many areas of software development including distributed systems with very large user bases.


Smartphones are significantly simpler! They are a single system.
They are not a single system. They have separated modules. They pack most of their complexity in a single logic board, but that doesn’t make them simpler.

Example:
 
That's not necessarily the "whole point." Having a programmable UI with a touch interface has very different reasons than simply customizing information.

The car has received quite a number of improvements. I've had mine since last November, have had 2 or 3 updates (one OTA, one or two at the dealer), and have seen improved charging (the charging curve moved up significantly), changes to driver assistance, and some fixes for issues. I don't understand the misstatement made here so frequently that there aren't any updates to iDrive 8... We'll get a new OTA shortly which has some more fixes, including for the Drive Malfunction bug.

@tonyquan, any comments on this?
not much to comment. BMW is doing what they want to do (fix the most critical bugs and give a few features here and there) They might have been able to do more to improve iDrive 8 but they’ve already decided what level of work they’re going to put into that.
 
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This misses the fundamental reality of the electronic systems in a car—and the testing required any time they are updated. Cars are not a single SoC (system on a chip) like a phone. Nor are the environmental sensors as rudimentary as those on a phone or watch. The complexity includes the networking of multiple computing units, their interactions, and the provision of user interface to access the user-selectable settings on them.

An "update" to the car is FAR more complex than an update to a phone or a PC. In fact, one reason BMW do not update as frequently as many of us might want is due to all of the things which could go wrong on an update (example: one CU is updated while a related CU fails and now they can't accurately communicate). Such a simple issue can be catastrophic (read: life critical) in a car. It is far from a system where you can, "Reset to factory and try again," as many of us have had to do with consumer devices.

So, it's easy to say, "BMW isn't modern like Apple or Google," when the truth is FAR more complex. Perhaps this is one reason the rumored Apple Car is still a non-product after all these years of supposed development...
this isn’t entirely accurate….

the hardware and software on our car is actually far less complex than that found on a new smartphone. It’s pretty easy to see that, actually. Try an augmented reality app on your smartphone that runs through the camera… there are several. Some of the ones I’ve used when I fly are exceptionally impressive… and they’ve been around for 5-7 years.

the difference is the allowance for, what we call in the industry, “Mean Time Between Failure.” For liability reasons, it pays for a car manufacturer to make a more simple system that has a lower MTBF. Some manufacturers are able to maintain an industry standard of lower MTBF and also integrate more advanced software and hardware. Ie- “better features.”

BMW has kept to their hardware/software setup of individual ECU’s (non-federated) and a proprietary software strategy that hasn’t really changed markedly over the past 15 or so years since I’ve been looking at it.

The result for BMW is a defined amount of risk for the company (as well as the consumer to a certain extent)…. But the price for that defined risk is essentially an automatic obsolescence the day the vehicle is purchased.

This is good and bad imo. Good: you know what you’ve got. Bad: the experience will not adapt over time to fit “modern” standards.

Tesla is really the only company to try to go down a different hardware/software approach that more mimics a smartphone- and it’s impressive what they’ve been able to do. I thought BMW was going down that path too- and they may very well be…. But not with the pre 2024 I4’s… in the code- the 2022 and 2023 are using the “old” philosophy- staying safe, and being prudent.

why? Because they can. They don’t have to “prove” anything just yet. At some point that may change- but the company doesn’t feel threatened enough just yet to do so.
 
this isn’t entirely accurate….

the hardware and software on our car is actually far less complex than that found on a new smartphone. It’s pretty easy to see that, actually. Try an augmented reality app on your smartphone that runs through the camera… there are several. Some of the ones I’ve used when I fly are exceptionally impressive… and they’ve been around for 5-7 years.

the difference is the allowance for, what we call in the industry, “Mean Time Between Failure.” For liability reasons, it pays for a car manufacturer to make a more simple system that has a lower MTBF. Some manufacturers are able to maintain an industry standard of lower MTBF and also integrate more advanced software and hardware. Ie- “better features.”

BMW has kept to their hardware/software setup of individual ECU’s (non-federated) and a proprietary software strategy that hasn’t really changed markedly over the past 15 or so years since I’ve been looking at it.

The result for BMW is a defined amount of risk for the company (as well as the consumer to a certain extent)…. But the price for that defined risk is essentially an automatic obsolescence the day the vehicle is purchased.

This is good and bad imo. Good: you know what you’ve got. Bad: the experience will not adapt over time to fit “modern” standards.

Tesla is really the only company to try to go down a different hardware/software approach that more mimics a smartphone- and it’s impressive what they’ve been able to do. I thought BMW was going down that path too- and they may very well be…. But not with the pre 2024 I4’s… in the code- the 2022 and 2023 are using the “old” philosophy- staying safe, and being prudent.

why? Because they can. They don’t have to “prove” anything just yet. At some point that may change- but the company doesn’t feel threatened enough just yet to do so.
Neue Klasse looks like perhaps the first real change on this model for a while. But we'll see.
 
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My assumption is: Cloud coding as in, at the time of coding the device that’s connected to your car needs internet access to BMW servers before coding can happen. Car itself doesn’t need a data connection.
this is somewhat true.

I’ve seen some comments like “you can’t code idrive 8.5.” This is also somewhat true right now… but not necessarily in the future.

SecureCode 2.0 is what BMW implemented on the iX and in idrive 8.5.

In a simplified explanation:

Prior to SC2.0, a new “software” was released to dealers that would then flash the car. The dealer received the whole software kit. That kit was ultimately being leaked to the “coding community” who would parse it and provide the data files to… well… lots of people. Using Esys, the PSDZ could be used to modify the cars coding of the ECU’s to the most modern code and I-step levels. Thus features could be added/modified.

With SC2.0- the dealer no longer receives the software- now it’s “in the cloud” (hosted on the bmw cloud servers). The dealer can still flash the car- but they don’t have the actual code- it’s hosted on the cloud. Without the latest istep, the ECU’s wont “talk to” Esys…. Thus the ECU’s appear to be “locked.”

if someone were to get their hands on the latest software- coding can resume. Until then, though- We have no way to code the car. The problem is- since the code is now more tightly controlled via BMW- it may be very difficult to get a “leaked”

As an analogy- If Esys is a screwdriver with changeable bits… and the cars code is a screw- then we have the screwdriver- but we don’t have the bit that can fit the screw.

it’s not impossible. Nor has the code or ECU’s been “encrypted” as some have suggested… we (in the coding community) just can’t get our hands on the base code. We’ll see how this shakes out over time.
 
Now I'm even more happy to have 8.0. But when there will be a leaked version of 8.5, wouldn't it be locked or overwritten once connected back to the cloud as the settings in the car don't match whats saved there?
 
Now I'm even more happy to have 8.0. But when there will be a leaked version of 8.5, wouldn't it be locked or overwritten once connected back to the cloud as the settings in the car don't match whats saved there?
it would be overwritten by any new OTA software push that BMW does- but that wouldn’t happen instantly- only on the current “three times a year” release cycle. Similar to how when some of the folks on this got their 22/23 I4’s updated by the dealer to 07-23 and initially reported “You can’t code the new release!” (They were trying with bimmercode, I believe)

until the latest I-step is loaded in programs like bimmercode/bimmerutility- they won’t recognize the updated I-step… the ecu appears “locked”

Long story longer- every time an OTA push happens- if you’re on secure code 2.0, and one were to have the coding data for the previous I-step, you’d have to get the newest istep to re-code your car. Between the releases, though, your car would “stay coded” (just like it does with idrive 8.0). The car is not continuously checking and “self healing” the software under either system.

Based on what BMW is doing with idrive 8, 8.5, 9… it’s hard to say at this point which “version” will ultimately be “better” as that’s a personal preference which could change over time. I won’t expand on my thoughts on that here- as I’ll risk getting re-banned for thread creep. (Those discussions happen in the “criticisms of bmw’s software approach” thread)
 
I love my i4. That doesn’t preclude me from seeing its shortcomings and planned obsolescence is the major one. Tesla saw the same shortcomings in the industry and realized that automotive grade was an excuse to target a low bar in a market which is an oligopoly. They apparently did things right as their market capitalization and brand awareness shows.

I’m not a Tesla enthusiast. I think their hardware optimizes too much for profit and cost cutting. For example, their have been know at least until recently to not use automotive grade screens that could resist the heat a car can be exposed. However their software is top notch and sets an example to the rest of the industry. Their self driving solution is incredible advanced give the constraints of using only video cameras with no radar, lidar or other sensors that would increase costs. That makes it also very controversial. Setting aside FSD and other controversial business practices, technically speaking they have been doing frequent updates for years yet there is no report of widespread bricking, other major malfunctions.
Their self driving system is flawed at its core.

As someone that is versed in ASIL and ISO26262 and taken both TĂśV and Exida training; the Tesla system doesn't and will never work correctly.

That is apparent since they have added front facing high resolution digital radar in upcoming cars.

First they don't even have 360 degree cameras. This leaves blind spots in the vision. Second they don't have redundant cameras if one fails. All other manufactures use cameras, radar, lidar and ultrasonic sensors in some combination.

Tesla ranks #7 in the latest testing of ADAS systems.
Behind GM, Ford, Mercedes, Audi and BMW.

For the company that claims to be a leader they don't have L3 and won't ever. BMW has applied for L3. Mercedes has been approved for L3 on Nevada.

GM, Alphabet and Amazon currently have self driving permits in California. Funny how Tesla is not there...

Tesla leads only in the case of quality challenges. Friends don't let friends buy Tesla. They definitely don't let them buy FSD or use it.

FSD doesn't allow hands free at ANY speed.

2023 M50 - Tanzanite over tartufo full individual leather, 20" wheels, fully loaded.
 
Their self driving system is flawed at its core.

As someone that is versed in ASIL and ISO26262 and taken both TĂśV and Exida training; the Tesla system doesn't and will never work correctly.

That is apparent since they have added front facing high resolution digital radar in upcoming cars.

First they don't even have 360 degree cameras. This leaves blind spots in the vision. Second they don't have redundant cameras if one fails. All other manufactures use cameras, radar, lidar and ultrasonic sensors in some combination.

Tesla ranks #7 in the latest testing of ADAS systems.
Behind GM, Ford, Mercedes, Audi and BMW.

For the company that claims to be a leader they don't have L3 and won't ever. BMW has applied for L3. Mercedes has been approved for L3 on Nevada.

GM, Alphabet and Amazon currently have self driving permits in California. Funny how Tesla is not there...

Tesla leads only in the case of quality challenges. Friends don't let friends buy Tesla. They definitely don't let them buy FSD or use it.

FSD doesn't allow hands free at ANY speed.

2023 M50 - Tanzanite over tartufo full individual leather, 20" wheels, fully loaded.
The fact that Tesla Full Self Driving operates to a level where a lot people think is L3 capable with very constrained (and probably insufficient) hardware doesn’t make the software less impressive. I makes it MORE impressive. I praised the software and not the overall system.
 
Their self driving system is flawed at its core.

As someone that is versed in ASIL and ISO26262 and taken both TĂśV and Exida training; the Tesla system doesn't and will never work correctly.

That is apparent since they have added front facing high resolution digital radar in upcoming cars.

First they don't even have 360 degree cameras. This leaves blind spots in the vision. Second they don't have redundant cameras if one fails. All other manufactures use cameras, radar, lidar and ultrasonic sensors in some combination.

Tesla ranks #7 in the latest testing of ADAS systems.
Behind GM, Ford, Mercedes, Audi and BMW.

For the company that claims to be a leader they don't have L3 and won't ever. BMW has applied for L3. Mercedes has been approved for L3 on Nevada.

GM, Alphabet and Amazon currently have self driving permits in California. Funny how Tesla is not there...

Tesla leads only in the case of quality challenges. Friends don't let friends buy Tesla. They definitely don't let them buy FSD or use it.

FSD doesn't allow hands free at ANY speed.

2023 M50 - Tanzanite over tartufo full individual leather, 20" wheels, fully loaded.
of note- our ADAS system in the I4 is not the L3 system that BMW has applied for approval for, and never will be: we don’t have the same hardware.

Teslas FSD system is impressive based on their hardware. Definitely not perfect- and you definitely have to pay attention- but it’s far more capable than the BMW system (hardware and software wise) installed in the i4 (currently). And much of that has to do with the “legacy” BMW approach to their system design (in both software and hardware). No future proofing in hardware was done with the i4, it appears… which is somewhat evident in the HW changes driving the software with idrive 8.5 and 9.0
 
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