[16 cylinder]

According to the latest studies fastcharging and fast de-charging degrades the battery much faster.

So i4 edrive vs m50...

Edrive has wlpt of 590 km ( real life estimate is 475 km)

M50 has wlpt of 515 km (real life estimate 450 km)

However the m50 is heavier and less effective and will decharge faster, it also has more powerful engines which will de-charge up to 60% more (340 hp vs 544 hp). The shorter range will probably also give the need for more top ups with fast charging.

This means the battery will degrade faster on the m50 and the range difference will become larger over time 🤔

I am still conflicted about which model to buy. I have upgraded the i4 edrive with M-Sport package including M suspension etc, so it is 99% the same as M50 only with better range.

Does anyone have data on the actual degradation of modern EV batteries?

For example if I use a 10% degradation of the edrive and for the m50 20% degradation:

Worst case Real life range:
Edrive 430 km range (wlpt 530 km)
M50 360 km range(wlpt 410 km)

 

[Lord]

I don't have the data you want. I'm too interested.
But as a side note I remember a BMW executive saying that to change the battery of an i3 it costs 16.000 ($ or € I'm not sure but I think €).

Someone could change parts/cells of the battery, but if we are talking about degradation, it will probably affect the whole battery (which I think has 8 years or 160k Km guarantee).

 

[Inception]

Modern electric cars have pretty low degradation. Look for data from Tesla Model S, many sources. Pre/heating of batteries and battery management software matters. Difference lies between cheaper and older models, and newer. Even if one model has a higher maximum power available, it seems unlikely that drivers will use this power in a way that will affect average power output over time, considering traffic laws exist most places. Difference seems marginal. If you list all the trips done in a year, the number of trips ranging extactly between 400 and 500 km, where you really wanted to not stop, would be probably only a handful. Seems to be simply a worse car.

 

[Rincewind]

Difference seems marginal

^^^ This. In my Model 3 Performance, almost all of the time I drive it quite economically, not pulling hardly any more from the battery than a single motor version. I did a trip of about 20 miles today and averaged 260 wh/mile.

There is now a wealth of data available for Tesla battery life. There are model 3 and model s out there that are hitting 300,000 + kms with only around 10% loss of capacity. It is true that very fast charging is not great for the battery but the difference in degradation is quite minimal from what I have seen.

 

[Renuren]

I follow the conversation but don't know.

 

[Rincewind]

After having owned a Tesla Model 3 Performance for nearly two years and seen various Tesla battery degradation figures, I can tell you that the M50 will not degrade any faster than the i4 edrive. It may just possibly be a marginal difference if you do a hell of a lot of fast charging, but most people will do almost all their charging at home on a slow AC charger. There are many many Tesla Model S and 3 around (fast and not so fast versions) that have over 200,000 kms on them, and are seeing around 10% degradation. Don't worry about it - just enjoy it. That's what I do and nearly two years down the line I'm seeing about 4% loss of range. It's also a characteristic of LiIon batteries that they will take their range loss hit early in life, tailing off after the first year or two.

Lurk around the Tesla forums for a while, there's plenty of info on there.

 

[Lord]

For some reason this conversation remind me of the burning issue of OLED screens.
I own several for the last 5 years and you just enjoy them without thinking too much about it.

 

[Rincewind]

I also have an LG OLED, I don’t worry about burn in either, I just enjoy the superb picture. I’ve just discovered that the network cards in them (mine at least) are not gigabit- mine tops out at around 60 mbps. So, I bought a LAN to USB adapter, plugged it in at the weekend and…. 230mbps. Netflix now loads instantlY. This presumes you are using a lan connection and not wireless of course.

 

[Lord]

I own 4 OLED Philips including the 65OLED903, because we really like the Ambilight!
Without getting too much off topic here the point is 5 years ago I read countless articles and watched dozens of videos about the "burning issue".
After all these years I don't think about it at all and we just enjoy the top notch quality.
I think when we own (finally) the i4 we will just enjoy the car without thinking about the battery.

 

[DES_MX]

I had a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR RWD (single engine) and kept it for about a year, almost no degradation (definitely not "visible" or easily measurable).
Even if dual motor will degrade the battery faster, due to faster discharge & more required charge cycles, it will still be negligible. Also, I believe the strategy will be to trade in your car within 3 years max, and if you really still love the i4 / M50 / then current model, just get the latest refresh. Personally, due to tech advances etc I wouldn't want to keep the car longer than 3 years any way. So far been getting new cars and trading in 0.5 year to 1 year into ownership and always able to get a sweet trade in deal (Tesla --> BMW 330e --> MB E Class 300E --> iX3 High Exeec --> i4 M50 --> ? ) all in 3 years

 

[Hans]

I have a LG OLED too. And I do not worry about the battery neither. We have a lot in common
Interesting tip regarding the network connection. I will try for sure. Thanks @Rincewind.

So, I bought a LAN to USB adapter, plugged it in at the weekend and…. 230mbps.

Complete off topic of course, but where do you check the actual Mb p/s?

 

[Rincewind]

2 ways that I know of.
1. In Netflix - Help on the Tv app (on the vertical listing on the left hand side just before 'Exit').
2. Install the Speedtest app on the TV.

 

[greensaloon]

I follow the conversation but don't know.

Welcome to the forum @Renuren. Which i4 model are you getting?

After having owned a Tesla Model 3 Performance for nearly two years and seen various Tesla battery degradation figures, I can tell you that the M50 will not degrade any faster than the i4 edrive. It may just possibly be a marginal difference if you do a hell of a lot of fast charging, but most people will do almost all their charging at home on a slow AC charger. There are many many Tesla Model S and 3 around (fast and not so fast versions) that have over 200,000 kms on them, and are seeing around 10% degradation. Don't worry about it - just enjoy it. That's what I do and nearly two years down the line I'm seeing about 4% loss of range. It's also a characteristic of LiIon batteries that they will take their range loss hit early in life, tailing off after the first year or two.

Lurk around the Tesla forums for a while, there's plenty of info on there.

That's what I have been hearing.

Anyone concerned if there will be enough public charging stations near them?
I think that's a bigger issue.

 

[Rincewind]

Anyone concerned if there will be enough public charging stations near them?
I think that's a bigger issue.

True enough. I have just done a 300 mile round trip to Birmingham, and having the Tesla supercharger network is great. That said, I'm still changing to the M50 as I only use public chargers a few times a year, and with careful planning it shouldn't be an issue. And, of course, Tesla have said (well, Elon) that they are opening up their network to all EV's.

 

[Rincewind]

Have a good read of this

Minimising battery degradation

I have a 2021 Shanghai-built M3P with the 82 kWh Panasonic battery. My understanding is that the following four charging regimes all take the same amount of power: Daily charge - 60% to 80% Daily charge - 40% to 60% Every other day charge - 40% to 80% Every other day charge - 20% to 60%...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[aigarius]

The only difference is in number of charging cycles. The more power is available to you, the more likely is that you'd use it, the more you use it, the more charge from the battery you consume, the more charge you consume the more times you'd need to recharge. On a very high level each battery has a particular number of charging cycles it will take before its capacity goes down to 80% of the initial capacity. If you drive like mad, you empty and recharge more often and you reach that value sooner. That is about it. The battery is not dead at that point and your right foot is what decides how much power you use. The model just allows to push more faster. In any case the difference might be between reaching 80% capacity in 8 years or 9 years. Same as power degradation with old ICE engines. Does it matter?

 

[Baker Canada]

The only difference is in number of charging cycles. The more power is available to you, the more likely is that you'd use it, the more you use it, the more charge from the battery you consume, the more charge you consume the more times you'd need to recharge. On a very high level each battery has a particular number of charging cycles it will take before its capacity goes down to 80% of the initial capacity. If you drive like mad, you empty and recharge more often and you reach that value sooner. That is about it. The battery is not dead at that point and your right foot is what decides how much power you use. The model just allows to push more faster. In any case the difference might be between reaching 80% capacity in 8 years or 9 years. Same as power degradation with old ICE engines. Does it matter?

How long is the warranty on the battery for the I4?

 

[460]

How long is the warranty on the battery for the I4?

can't find this info 🙁

 

[Baker Canada]

can't find this info 🙁

The normal in the industry is 8 years, hope it will the same for BMW !

 

[aigarius]

It's 8 years, but specific conditions my be different country-to-country based on local regulations.