[rollermonkey]

None of the promises by Musk are real.

I cannot believe that the stock has not cratered, and that more people are not talking about the recent discovery concerning numerous cases of Autopilot shutting itself off in the final 0.5-1 second before a crash, just so that T can say "Autopilot was not engaged at the time of the incident" with a straight face. This 'design feature' seems criminal, IMHO.

 

[Elmhurst Mick]

I have a 2021 Model Y AWD w/stock CC (includes ACC). I've only found its distance keeping to be helpful when in stop and go traffic on the freeway. In that instance(s) it's most helpful and stress relieving. I don't have any of the other nanny minders on.

Does to yours only have cameras or do you have radar and/or lidar? So, you suggest turning off the "nanny minders" that are touted as Tesla's technological strength? My 2019 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid is stress free in stop and go traffic, but my Tesla is phantom braking and serving to avoid ghosts.

Thanks for your input.

 

[i4m50Norway]

100% agreed with what you said.

There was a better way bmw could handle this. Simply honor signed contracts but remove this option for new orders. That way you keep current buyers and new ones know what they are getting. This is a solution that would be expected from premium brand. Instead they just pissed off curent eDrive40 buyers with their incompetence.

When the supply issue started, BMW decided to prioritize the iX and i4, Status now is that they dont get parts for all off them, and unfortunately for the i4 40, that is the less costly car, and the one that will be least hurt by removing parts, combined with high volume that can solve the supply issue for the other cars. And remember that this is not new order, but cars that was ordered in June, July and August 2021 that has not been delivered yet. I think that if you order a car today - with delivery in 2024 the parts situation is probably a lot better/BMW handles it better - so you might be able to change your order to add missing options before delivery/production. It might be the i4 eDrive 35 that will be the least prioritized.

If I got the message that equipment I regard important is missing - I would probably try to delay delivery or cancel/reorder. My big issue is that I got a really good price, and that EV tax will probably be introduced in Norway from 2023. So a new order will probably be EUR 20000 higher than current contract. The chance of me delaying/canceling is therefore quite small.

This parts thing of the i4 is one of the really small issues in the world today - If it is a big problem for you now - I suspect that you will never be satisfied with the car - it might be better to just cancel and wait for a better car. The "neue klasse" is just a few years away, and the other car producers will come up with alternatives - it might be better to continue driving an ICE until then. There is an electricity/gass delivery issues in Europe - It is probably better for the environment to continue driving an existing ICE for a few more years, so you dont contribute to electricity consumption from Coal powered stations. (both from building and running EV's)

 

[JST1963]

When the supply issue started, BMW decided to prioritize the iX and i4, Status now is that they dont get parts for all off them, and unfortunately for the i4 40, that is the less costly car, and the one that will be least hurt by removing parts, combined with high volume that can solve the supply issue for the other cars. And remember that this is not new order, but cars that was ordered in June, July and August 2021 that has not been delivered yet. I think that if you order a car today - with delivery in 2024 the parts situation is probably a lot better/BMW handles it better - so you might be able to change your order to add missing options before delivery/production. It might be the i4 eDrive 35 that will be the least prioritized.

If I got the message that equipment I regard important is missing - I would probably try to delay delivery or cancel/reorder. My big issue is that I got a really good price, and that EV tax will probably be introduced in Norway from 2023. So a new order will probably be EUR 20000 higher than current contract. The chance of me delaying/canceling is therefore quite small.

This parts thing of the i4 is one of the really small issues in the world today - If it is a big problem for you now - I suspect that you will never be satisfied with the car - it might be better to just cancel and wait for a better car. The "neue klasse" is just a few years away, and the other car producers will come up with alternatives - it might be better to continue driving an ICE until then. There is an electricity/gass delivery issues in Europe - It is probably better for the environment to continue driving an existing ICE for a few more years, so you dont contribute to electricity consumption from Coal powered stations. (both from building and running EV's)

I do not completely disagree with you,
But there's a big but, at least for my country, Belgium.
As of 2026, every new company car will have to be an EV, not an ICE, not a hybrid, but a complete EV. And that's maybe half of all the cars that drive around in Belgium, maybe even more. Private purchases of ICE cars will be allowed till 2029 (fellow Belgians, correct me if I'm wrong). And you can continue driving your "old" ICE car until 2035. By then all vehicles on the road will have to be electric.
But even now, you have cities where you are no longer allowed to enter with an ICE of a certain age. They implemented what are called low emission zones. And therefore cars with too high CO2 emissions are no longer allowed into those cities. Cameras monitor that at the city limits....
And that's a limitation that can be found in more and more cities in Europe. I heard that in London, people buy two cars, because one day the can drive their car into London City, but not the next day? So every other day they drive one of their two cars...

 

[i4m50Norway]

Also a total push to EVs in Norway - 100 percent of all new cars in 2025 shall be electrical. that combined with EV's allowed in bus lanes and half price or less on toll-roads/ferries makes an EV the only alternative for new cars. However I believe that my new i4M50 will be a more expensive car to use/own compared with a traditional 5 - 10 years car. I bought an i3 three years ago - because it was a good economic decission - the i4M50 more because I want it (and an M3/M4 is EUR 170000 in Norway - 3 times i4M50)

The big discussion in Norway at the moment is sales tax (VAT) on EV's. The previous government wanted VAT of part of salesprice above NOK600000/EUR 60000 from 2022 - did not happen, new government want VAT of part of salesprice above NOK500000/EUR 50000 from 2022 - 2025. Makes it difficult for people that have ordered and expectiong delivery in 2023, cars like iX, EQS and Taycan/Audi GT. For the i4 it will only be a small price increase - depending of price/equipment (25 percent of price above EUR 50000)

Another argument for EV's is that second hand ICE cars will fall dramatically in price in the future - This has already happened in Norway - so no reason to sell now - it is too late. Also first generation Leafs, Zoe and BMW i3 is also cars in the range of EUR 2000 - 12000. - Leafs with questionable batteries is at the lower prices - a good idea if you only need to drive 20 - 30 km per day ?

 

[kindofblue]

Does to yours only have cameras or do you have radar and/or lidar? So, you suggest turning off the "nanny minders" that are touted as Tesla's technological strength? My 2019 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid is stress free in stop and go traffic, but my Tesla is phantom braking and serving to avoid ghosts.

Thanks for your input.

Mine has both lidar and cameras. Turning off the "nanny" reminders is just my personal preference. I was able to get the MY last year when I needed a vehicle quickly after BMW bought back my X5 45e for battery contamination issues that they couldn't fix for 6+ mo. I went full EV because I didn't want to go back to an ICE and I took delivery of my MY in 12 days after ordering it (Tesla is just up the road from us). I also got it because of their reliability with batteries and the SC network.

I've had a few instances of sudden braking when approaching a road bike on the shoulder in the past but it hasn't happened for some time now.

 

[CubanoConBMW]

I think one thing most people are forgetting is that you are not BMW’s customer. I’m speaking only to the United States, but one thing to keep in mind is that the dealer is buying your car, not you. You place an order with the dealer, and the dealer then orders from BMW. Yes, BMW does a good job papering over the fact that you’re not the client with “real-time” production updates and integrations between their site and dealers, but the cracks are there if you look for them. The supply chain issues have blown those cracks wide open.

What used to be a non-issue due to order delays being a month or two is now a huge issue now that delays are 9-12+ months. Trade-in values are unpredictable. Your contract with the dealer (and probably your order) is probably worthless (and subject to local consumer protection laws).

On the subject of those contracts, try to cancel it and then come back here to complain if they don’t (and then write your state attorney general’s office). My dealer offerred refundable deposits up front because they know there’s zero guarantee on supply and the end result being the build I ordered.

In a world where the dealer is the customer, not you, and can place any order in front of yours, reset your expectations and play the game differently. BMW is not setup to deal with ever-changing supply chains causing 9-12 month delays. They want your money, and will push anything out the door that will sell. They know you’ll be back. If you want to send a message, then go with a brand that has something to sell. Otherwise, deal with the situation as is. Speak with your wallet. My $0.03 (inflation) from the perspective of a someone who’s never owned a BMW before but deals with supply issues for work.

 

[Phil_EV]

When the supply issue started, BMW decided to prioritize the iX and i4, Status now is that they dont get parts for all off them, and unfortunately for the i4 40, that is the less costly car, and the one that will be least hurt by removing parts, combined with high volume that can solve the supply issue for the other cars. And remember that this is not new order, but cars that was ordered in June, July and August 2021 that has not been delivered yet. I think that if you order a car today - with delivery in 2024 the parts situation is probably a lot better/BMW handles it better - so you might be able to change your order to add missing options before delivery/production. It might be the i4 eDrive 35 that will be the least prioritized.

If I got the message that equipment I regard important is missing - I would probably try to delay delivery or cancel/reorder. My big issue is that I got a really good price, and that EV tax will probably be introduced in Norway from 2023. So a new order will probably be EUR 20000 higher than current contract. The chance of me delaying/canceling is therefore quite small.

This parts thing of the i4 is one of the really small issues in the world today - If it is a big problem for you now - I suspect that you will never be satisfied with the car - it might be better to just cancel and wait for a better car. The "neue klasse" is just a few years away, and the other car producers will come up with alternatives - it might be better to continue driving an ICE until then. There is an electricity/gass delivery issues in Europe - It is probably better for the environment to continue driving an existing ICE for a few more years, so you dont contribute to electricity consumption from Coal powered stations. (both from building and running EV's)

I think one thing most people are forgetting is that you are not BMW’s customer. I’m speaking only to the United States, but one thing to keep in mind is that the dealer is buying your car, not you. You place an order with the dealer, and the dealer then orders from BMW. Yes, BMW does a good job papering over the fact that you’re not the client with “real-time” production updates and integrations between their site and dealers, but the cracks are there if you look for them. The supply chain issues have blown those cracks wide open.

What used to be a non-issue due to order delays being a month or two is now a huge issue now that delays are 9-12+ months. Trade-in values are unpredictable. Your contract with the dealer (and probably your order) is probably worthless (and subject to local consumer protection laws).

On the subject of those contracts, try to cancel it and then come back here to complain if they don’t (and then write your state attorney general’s office). My dealer offerred refundable deposits up front because they know there’s zero guarantee on supply and the end result being the build I ordered.

In a world where the dealer is the customer, not you, and can place any order in front of yours, reset your expectations and play the game differently. BMW is not setup to deal with ever-changing supply chains causing 9-12 month delays. They want your money, and will push anything out the door that will sell. They know you’ll be back. If you want to send a message, then go with a brand that has something to sell. Otherwise, deal with the situation as is. Speak with your wallet. My $0.03 (inflation) from the perspective of a someone who’s never owned a BMW before but deals with supply issues for work.

Not sure if you are weak or is that group mentality to go back to the place that did you harm. I absolutly dont have to have BMW. And it this deal falls through I will not go back to BMW. There are a lot of amazing cars out there and BMW is nothing special in this time and place. They use to be faster and sportier that others. Now they are just mass produced regular car with few exemptions (m3 competition is probably not even single digit of their sold cars stat). Tesla 3 performance is better in all categories minus the comfort (image that, BMW only gets comfort). So if you switch brands its not like you're going do downgrade. There is also chance that you get what you ordered. Not so much with BMW.

 

[kipsate]

Not sure if you are weak or is that group mentality to go back to the place that did you harm. I absolutly dont have to have BMW. And it this deal falls through I will not go back to BMW. There are a lot of amazing cars out there and BMW is nothing special in this time and place. They use to be faster and sportier that others. Now they are just mass produced regular car with few exemptions (m3 competition is probably not even single digit of their sold cars stat). Tesla 3 performance is better in all categories minus the comfort (image that, BMW only gets comfort). So if you switch brands its not like you're going do downgrade. There is also chance that you get what you ordered. Not so much with BMW.

If your understanding of performance is simplistically reduced to a 0-100 number, then yes, go for a Tesla and forget about BMW. You will live happy in your reduced concept of what a performance car is. I just hope you don’t come across the need to drive your vehicle like a performance once and ending up without brakes in less than 8 minutes.

 

[Phil_EV]

If your understanding of performance is simplistically reduced to a 0-100 number, then yes, go for a Tesla and forget about BMW. You will live happy in your reduced concept of what a performance car is. I just hope you don’t come across the need to drive your vehicle like a performance once and ending up without brakes in less than 8 minutes.

There is no single video where M50 gets better circuit (yes circuit, not drag race) result/time versus M3P.

In any case I'm gettin eDrive40 so performance is out of the question obviously.

 

[i4m50Norway]

Not sure if you are weak or is that group mentality to go back to the place that did you harm. I absolutly dont have to have BMW. And it this deal falls through I will not go back to BMW. There are a lot of amazing cars out there and BMW is nothing special in this time and place. They use to be faster and sportier that others. Now they are just mass produced regular car with few exemptions (m3 competition is probably not even single digit of their sold cars stat). Tesla 3 performance is better in all categories minus the comfort (image that, BMW only gets comfort). So if you switch brands its not like you're going do downgrade. There is also chance that you get what you ordered. Not so much with BMW.

I have many friends that is very satisfied with their Tesla's and wonder why I want to wait for my i4M50.
The most important thing is that you are satisfied with your car, and it fits your need. What others think is really not important. What I tried to say in my previous message, is that if you are unsatisfied with BMW now - you might not ever be satisfied by the i4, maybe because of missing equipment - and then no reason to buy it ?

 

[Phil_EV]

I have many friends that is very satisfied with their Tesla's and wonder why I want to wait for my i4M50.
The most important thing is that you are satisfied with your car, and it fits your need. What others think is really not important. What I tried to say in my previous message, is that if you are unsatisfied with BMW now - you might not ever be satisfied by the i4, maybe because of missing equipment - and then no reason to buy it ?

Because I didn't opt for any driving assist (not sure why, but it doesnt do anything for me) or HUD, the only thing (at the moment) that could be deleted from my build is 360 camera. But I'm probably minimum 6 months away from my cars production start so I'll just have to see what happens then.
Losing 360 camera is not good but Tesla is removing matrix lights and installing older versions. That is probably harder pill to swallow

 

[i4m50Norway]

And no 360 camera and no HUD in the Tesla model 3?
Even a Skoda has 360 camera today. The Eniaq is actually a car that I like - feels like a grown up BMW i3.
(I was actually a little bit surprised comparing Audi Q4-etron and Skoda. The Skoda has physical buttons, and rollo above cargo area - instead of the stupid shelf in the Audi/id.4 - and unfortunately also in BMW i4)

 

[rollermonkey]

TM3 has 8 exterior cameras, but you can only access 3 of them. The data from all 8 gets sent to Tesla to feed the AI, even if you don't have FSD, though.

 

[Phil_EV]

And no 360 camera and no HUD in the Tesla model 3?
Even a Skoda has 360 camera today. The Eniaq is actually a car that I like - feels like a grown up BMW i3.
(I was actually a little bit surprised comparing Audi Q4-etron and Skoda. The Skoda has physical buttons, and rollo above cargo area - instead of the stupid shelf in the Audi/id.4 - and unfortunately also in BMW i4)

Tesla 3 is interesting here. They don't have 360 view true, but they have 8 cameras, that will show you all sides of the car when reversing. Both options are fine to me.
Correct, Tesla 3 doesn't have HUD. I just like the looks of i4 way more and interior is way nicer to me. Tesla 3 wins with glass roof (for the looks, but not functional for me as I feel sun warming head area and then climate blasting to lower part of the body) and alpine white interior seats. Every other aspect is nicer in i4 IMO.

I like Skoda a lot but honestly would buy petrol RS model (or Golf GTI) if i4 fall through. Or maybe Audi A5 with 2.0 TFSI. As I don't to a lot of millage per month (around 500km) so my petrol bill is around 60 EUR per month.

Tesla 3 is just overpriced at the moment IMO. It was great at around 50K EUR for LR but they want 65k now? Its fast but to me its Clio with fast engine. Does this make any sense?

 

[i4m50Norway]

In Norway - due to car tax system - there is really no alternative to EV's anymore - if buying new.
I have friends that bought the firsts Tesla model S for less than 50000 Euro, and that is one of the main reason for being one of the mostly sold EV ever, in Norway - but very little market share for Tesla in 2022 compared with previous years :

 

[Phil_EV]

In my country Golf GTI/Octavia RS is almost 2x cheaper that base i4....35k EUR vs 57 (i4). For my it is still viable alternative

How come that Tesla 3 is loosing its market share in Norway? Bjorns tesla marketing not working really? He is cool but his tests are slightly biased towards tesla.

 

[i4m50Norway]

In my country Golf GTI/Octavia RS is almost 2x cheaper that base i4....35k EUR vs 57 (i4). For my it is still viable alternative

How come that Tesla 3 is loosing its market share in Norway? Bjorns tesla marketing not working really? He is cool but his tests are slightly biased towards tesla.

If you look at the top 4 cars in the salesstatistics. That and the Zoe and Tesla Model S, and later Model X was the only ones available some years ago. The only one with a range above 200 km was the Tesla. And since the Tesla price started really low, and increased (due to US Dollar exchange rate) - my friends talked about how they sold the Teslas for more than they paid for it.

Bjorn's Tesla referals has bought him two Roadsters - so no wonder he is a fan. Some months ago I read a research report that looked into Youtubers that had to be pro Tesla to not loose viewers.

I think there is a difference between EV enthusiasts and Car enthusiasts :
EV Entusiasts prefer cars like the Tesla's BMW i3, and BMW iX.
Car Enthusiasts prefer BMW i4.
(I have spent many hours doing rust-repair on my old cars - so when the i3 came out, built form only aluminium/plastic, That was the solution for me)

 

[Ken7]

Why not get a Tesla? I can think of a few reasons:

• Shoddy assembly quality
• Rattles
• Noisy
• Lousy suspensions
• Virtually everything controlled through the touchscreen (a safety issue IMO)
• Barebones interiors
• Yolk steering wheel in the MS that many owners hate (another potential safety issue IMO)
• Poor handling

Those are just a few that came to mind in the first 30 seconds of thinking about it…and I owned a 2017 MS.

So anyone thinking the i4 is not a demonstrably superior car is either kidding themselves or speaking out of frustration (which I understand). Even Tesla’s admittedly superior charging network is losing its advantage day by day.

 

[kindofblue]

Hi all,
This thread has veered way off topic. Do you suppose we could get back to my original question/suggestion?

I'm not a big fan of most of the advanced driving features of EVs yet have found the active or adaptive cruise control can be useful in some situations and would like those of a similar mindset to contact BMW about re-instituting it as an option for the 40e.