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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone,

Went to the dealer today to put in my i4 order. When I asked him if there is any negotiation on price, he said no and to expect the financing team (not him because he claims he doesn't profit on the markup) to add a $5-10k markup on top of MSRP. He said that if I didn't want a markup on MSRP, I can instead expect extra percentages on my financing APR to make up for it.

I was considering buying this with cash or financing with an extremely low APR due to having a good credit rating. Thought on this? Anyone else run into this issue?
 

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Hey everyone,

Went to the dealer today to put in my i4 order. When I asked him if there is any negotiation on price, he said no and to expect the financing team (not him because he claims he doesn't profit on the markup) to add a $5-10k markup on top of MSRP. He said that if I didn't want a markup on MSRP, I can instead expect extra percentages on my financing APR to make up for it.

I was considering buying this with cash or financing with an extremely low APR due to having a good credit rating. Thought on this? Anyone else run into this issue?
This is wrong.

If you have any record of the price you were quoted first speak to someone in authority there and if not hire a lawyer to just send a letter on the price change. In some states this is a consumer violation subjecting dealer to potential multiple damages and attorneys fees!

The APR may be a BMW program with a fixed rate.
 

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I had the discussion with the dealer when I was going to put in the preorder
A pre-order would have been done on the BMW website with a $1500 deposit, and preorders closed a few weeks ago. If you went in today to order the car, then you're doing a regular order, in which case you're probably going to be stuck with a big markup and a 2023 delivery.
 

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Where does this whole US markup thing come from? I saw some crazy markups for other cars. You can do it on used cars, but new cars have official prices. In Europe, there is no such thing as far as I know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A pre-order would have been done on the BMW website with a $1500 deposit, and preorders closed a few weeks ago. If you went in today to order the car, then you're doing a regular order, in which case you're probably going to be stuck with a big markup and a 2023 delivery.
This pre-order or order (whatever it is) is still taking the deposit and is definitely not a 2023 delivery. Not sure about the website portion - they are taking the build code from the website though. Based on posts on this forum you still need to go through a dealer at some point even for a pre-order - don't think its fully through the website without some connection to your local dealer.
 

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This is wrong.

If you have any record of the price you were quoted first speak to someone in authority there and if not hire a lawyer to just send a letter on the price change. In some states this is a consumer violation subjecting dealer to potential multiple damages and attorneys fees!

The APR may be a BMW program with a fixed rate.
I'm doubt there's much of a legal requirement for the dealer to keep to a price unless it was already agreed upon in writing. But, it doesn't give a lot of good faith. I'd talk to other dealers, mention your dissatisfaction with this dealership, and also bring up that you're talking to other dealers instead. I still can't guarantee much currently though, there's probably people willing to buy at markup, so some dealers are going to take advantage of that.
 

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Hey everyone,

Went to the dealer today to put in my i4 order. When I asked him if there is any negotiation on price, he said no and to expect the financing team (not him because he claims he doesn't profit on the markup) to add a $5-10k markup on top of MSRP. He said that if I didn't want a markup on MSRP, I can instead expect extra percentages on my financing APR to make up for it.

I was considering buying this with cash or financing with an extremely low APR due to having a good credit rating. Thought on this? Anyone else run into this issue?
I kept warning about this in multiple threads. It will happen, many dealers are unscrupulous.

Here’s the problem as I see it. Most of us placed a preorder, but we didn’t sign a sales contract at the time (emphasis on the legal term ‘contract’). Without a ‘contract’, I don’t believe the dealer is obligated to honor any price that we saw on the configurator or the sheets many of us were given when we finalized our design.

When I asked my dealer if I should be signing a sales contract after we ironed out all the car’s details, he said, ‘Don’t worry, I don’t need any more money beyond your initial online deposit. We’ll work it all out at delivery’. I thought nothing of it at the time, but I sure did when I began to hear dealers of all brands charging well over MSRP for anything.

My friend ordered a Hyundai Tucson from a local dealer and was promised MSRP (this dealer is legitimate). My friend later thought he should have tried to get it below MSRP. I told him good luck with that. The first alternate dealer he called to try and negotiate a lower price, laughed and said flatly, ‘We’re getting $5,000 OVER MSRP on everything’. That was the end of his search.

So I honestly believe many of us will be having an issue. You need to think now how you will handle it. Are you prepared to walk away from the car you’ve waited a long time for? Rest assured the dealer won’t care, he’ll have an anxious buyer right behind you.

To be honest, I don’t know what I’ll do if my dealer tries this. I have a deposit down on the Lucid Air Pure too, so I have an option. In fact if they insist on a $5,000-10,000 markup on the i4, that will bring the i4’s price to almost exactly that of the Lucid Air Pure. What a joke.
 

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I'm doubt there's much of a legal requirement for the dealer to keep to a price unless it was already agreed upon in writing. But, it doesn't give a lot of good faith. I'd talk to other dealers, mention your dissatisfaction with this dealership, and also bring up that you're talking to other dealers instead. I still can't guarantee much currently though, there's probably people willing to buy at markup, so some dealers are going to take advantage of that.
I thought he was provided a price pre ordered and then it was changed after the preorder went in, that would be illegal.

Good advice to talk/call several dealers!

My experience was calling multiple dealers before pre order—some said MSRP, a couple would not commit, and one the best was invoice plus 1000 plus a fee of 549 .This worked out to almost 5% under MSRP , he had estimated it would be under MSRP and said probably end up about 5% under at time he quoted, but the specific commitment was definitely under MSRP.
 

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I thought he was provided a price pre ordered and then it was changed after the preorder went in, that would be illegal.

Good advice to talk/call several dealers!

My experience was calling multiple dealers before pre order—some said MSRP, a couple would not commit, and one the best was invoice plus 1000 plus a fee of 549 .This worked out to almost 5% under MSRP , he had estimated it would be under MSRP and said probably end up about 5% under at time he quoted, but the specific commitment was definitely under MSRP.
That will be the exception rather than the rule...unfortunately.
 

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I kept warning about this in multiple threads. It will happen, many dealers are unscrupulous.

Here’s the problem as I see it. Most of us placed a preorder, but we didn’t sign a sales contract at the time (emphasis on the legal term ‘contract’). Without a ‘contract’, I don’t believe the dealer is obligated to honor any price that we saw on the configurator or the sheets many of us were given when we finalized our design.

When I asked my dealer if I should be signing a sales contract after we ironed out all the car’s details, he said, ‘Don’t worry, I don’t need any more money beyond your initial online deposit. We’ll work it all out at delivery’. I thought nothing of it at the time, but I sure did when I began to hear dealers of all brands charging well over MSRP for anything.

My friend ordered a Hyundai Tucson from a local dealer and was promised MSRP (this dealer is legitimate). My friend later thought he should have tried to get it below MSRP. I told him good luck with that. The first alternate dealer he called to try and negotiate a lower price, laughed and said flatly, ‘We’re getting $5,000 OVER MSRP on everything’. That was the end of his search.

So I honestly believe many of us will be having an issue. You need to think now how you will handle it. Are you prepared to walk away from the car you’ve waited a long time for? Rest assured the dealer won’t care, he’ll have an anxious buyer right behind you.

To be honest, I don’t know what I’ll do if my dealer tries this. I have a deposit down on the Lucid Air Pure too, so I have an option. In fact if they insist on a $5,000-10,000 markup on the i4, that will bring the i4’s price to almost exactly that of the Lucid Air Pure. What a joke.
Seriously, dealers in the US do this because they can. They are protected by laws from corrupt legislations that forbid car manufacturers to sell direct to the customer, this is why Tesla only sells on line and has been fighting this system since they started. The only way we can fight it as customers is by not giving in. I hope that you find the fortitude to either go to another, less greedy dealer, may be a bit out of your way, or even in another city and get the car delivered in Spartanburg, it's more complicated but I think the experience is worth it. I crossed Hyundai/Kia from my list because of that same markup thing. And remember, if they are greedy at initial purchase when you can walk away, just think about what they'll do when your car is broken and you want them to fix it.
 

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MinhSATx, the only thing is I think once you've reserved a car, it's tied to that dealer. So if he plays games, it's not like you can take that reservation to another dealer. At least that's what I've read here.
 

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MinhSATx, the only thing is I think once you've reserved a car, it's tied to that dealer. So if he plays games, it's not like you can take that reservation to another dealer. At least that's what I've read here.
I do think you're right. The only thing I can say though, is that if this happens to me, I'll walk away. I can continue using my ICE car until, say, Mercedes and Audi come up with their electrical car, and with supply and competition, buy the best car then. I will though do everything in my power to let BMW and everybody I can reach to know the name of my dealer and how they are damaging the BMW brand and the viability of the dealer structure. It's the same thing as responding to blackmail especially the wave of "encryption attacks" we had. Everybody has their own circumstances, but paying up only encourages more similar crimes. I'm proud that my company did not pay up, we suffered but we recovered.
 

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On the same subject, the Internet is abuzz with Ford dealers charging an outrageous surcharge on F150 Lightnings, and we'll surely see the same when people start buying electric Hummers and Equinoxes. BMW is too small and too "foreign" to register with the Federal government (even though they do manufacture in Spartanburg), but Ford and GM are not, and I'm hoping for an outcry that will make something finally happen to our broken dealership system - a pernicious form of monopoly!
 

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That dealer gives an easy solution really. Take the higher APR dealer financing to get the lower purchase price. Immediately go to your favorite bank or credit union and refinance. I have done this multiple times. The dealers will typically give you more off MSRP if you use their financing since they get a kickback from the finance company. If it's a good dealer and sales person I will wait the 3 months they ask so they get their kickback. If it's not a good dealer I do it immediately so they don't. My credit union makes it incredibly easy to refinance and they still consider it a new car for the lower interest rate.
 

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My Dealer in Regina SK, Canada confirmed there will be no markup but there is still and change BMW might up the MSRP before we actually purchase the car but said that would be unlikely and when it has happened in the past, is was less than 1%.
 

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That dealer gives an easy solution really. Take the higher APR dealer financing to get the lower purchase price. Immediately go to your favorite bank or credit union and refinance. I have done this multiple times. The dealers will typically give you more off MSRP if you use their financing since they get a kickback from the finance company. If it's a good dealer and sales person I will wait the 3 months they ask so they get their kickback. If it's not a good dealer I do it immediately so they don't. My credit union makes it incredibly easy to refinance and they still consider it a new car for the lower interest rate.
The other thing you can do if you were intending to do a cash deal, is take the financing and then after your first payment, pay off the entire loan. But I don’t think too many dealers will give you 2 paths.
 

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The other thing you can do if you were intending to do a cash deal, is take the financing and then after your first payment, pay off the entire loan. But I don’t think too many dealers will give you 2 paths.
Is there a standard bmw financing rate for i4s In USA?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That dealer gives an easy solution really. Take the higher APR dealer financing to get the lower purchase price. Immediately go to your favorite bank or credit union and refinance. I have done this multiple times. The dealers will typically give you more off MSRP if you use their financing since they get a kickback from the finance company. If it's a good dealer and sales person I will wait the 3 months they ask so they get their kickback. If it's not a good dealer I do it immediately so they don't. My credit union makes it incredibly easy to refinance and they still consider it a new car for the lower interest rate.
How low have you seen rates drop on refinancing? I'm trying to get below 2%. BMW Financial Services gave me 1.9% right now. Expecting the dealer to add on top of that.
 
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