BMW i4 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Think I spent so much time hyping this car, and also I'm tired of waiting. I have made an agreement to buy it, and I still will, but in the meantime I think I will get a Porsche 997 and enjoy that, then carefully consider if the M50 is a car I feel like I want more. I could probably sell the M50 for a bit more than the agreed price.

Quick pros and cons re. keeping my order

Pros
  • Way more practical, won't need to keep my other cars for ski trips and lugging things around
  • Warranty etc, no costs for years. The Porsche will have expensive things that need fixing.
  • Looks good
  • Nice seats
  • Fast as hell
  • Electricity is cheap compared to petrol, I can charge at home
Cons
  • Doesn't look as good as the Porsche​
  • I could always just get a roof rack​
  • Doesn't have hydraulic steering​
  • Hans Zimmer sounds doesn't replace that sports exhaust​
  • A 911 is way more fun to start in the garage​
  • It will depreciate a lot after 2-3 years​
  • They don't make em like they used to​
Opinions?
 

·
Registered
i4 M50 19" 861M Sanremo green
Joined
·
1,567 Posts
@Inception , the jury is still out on whether replacing a current ICE car with a new EV makes more or less carbon than keeping extracting and refining oil to run the ICE, due to the big carbon footprint of making a new EV with its batteries. Certainly we should reduce the production of NEW ICE cars but running existing ICE cars may be neutral rather than letting them go to landfills. So until all the recycling recipes are sorted, just have fun!
 

·
Well-known member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
Think I spent so much time hyping this car, and also I'm tired of waiting. I have made an agreement to buy it, and I still will, but in the meantime I think I will get a Porsche 997 and enjoy that, then carefully consider if the M50 is a car I feel like I want more. I could probably sell the M50 for a bit more than the agreed price.

Quick pros and cons re. keeping my order

Pros
  • Way more practical, won't need to keep my other cars for ski trips and lugging things around
  • Warranty etc, no costs for years. The Porsche will have expensive things that need fixing.
  • Looks good
  • Nice seats
  • Fast as hell
  • Electricity is cheap compared to petrol, I can charge at home
Cons
  • Doesn't look as good as the Porsche​
  • I could always just get a roof rack​
  • Doesn't have hydraulic steering​
  • Hans Zimmer sounds doesn't replace that sports exhaust​
  • A 911 is way more fun to start in the garage​
  • It will depreciate a lot after 2-3 years​
  • They don't make em like they used to​
Opinions?
Hype cycle:
Automotive parking light Automotive lighting Car Motor vehicle Wheel



Having said that, the Porsche seems like a good choice if you're not in a hurry to switch to EV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Increasingly frequent expenses on my old E-61. No tax and (hopefully) no VAT added to the prize of the new one (brand new car with 544HP cheaper than in Germany, fgs!).
Oh, and I'm getting old, so looking forward to some utter peace and quiet. Maybe interrupted by some occasional high quality funk on the HK stereo.

A 997 is gorgeous, but personally I'll wait for my M50 :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
@Inception , the jury is still out on whether replacing a current ICE car with a new EV makes more or less carbon than keeping extracting and refining oil to run the ICE, due to the big carbon footprint of making a new EV with its batteries. Certainly we should reduce the production of NEW ICE cars but running existing ICE cars may be neutral rather than letting them go to landfills. So until all the recycling recipes are sorted, just have fun!
This is almost all false. Every study attacking EVs as being big carbon producers is politically motivated and based on layer upon layer of false assumptions, bad science, and evil intent. Sorry. You are not doing anything good buy buying an ICE, unless perhaps you're running on biodiesel.

Now if you DGAF, that's fine. Your moral choice. I would enjoy the hell out of a 911, but I can't bring myself to make that choice when I can afford far greener options.

Also, gas stations suck sweaty balls.
 

·
Well-known member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
Every study attacking EVs as being big carbon producers is politically motivated and based on layer upon layer of false assumptions, bad science, and evil intent
BMW always talk of local CO2e, this is fallacious. The best value I found is -30% CO2e over the lifetime of a BMW EV (vs BMW ICE), which is not enough. Indeed, the only solution: fewer humans cars.

(But I no longer believe in our ability to stop climate change, so I buy 2.2 tons of German car to forget about it 😔)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
I currently drive a Tesla MYLR, which does 0-60 in 4.2 and which I drive like it's stolen. I figure I get about 70MPGe. Nearest equivalent ICE? BMW X3M40i. If I drove that like I drive the Tesla, I figure I'd see 16MPG. Shall I do the carbon math? We have solar panels. Our power company is 50% renewable, and the rest is natural gas. The math keeps getting worse for ICE.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
We're certainly not going to save the world with our bourgey cars. I totally agree. We can, however, do less harm while we wait for our politicians to take their thumbs out of their asses and make the hard decisions that need to be made. That you DGAF is, as I said, your moral decision to make. I'm guessing you don't have kids.

For me, what makes the decision easy is that electric performance takes a steaming dump all over ICE performance. A Fiat 500e is faster off the line than an old E60 550i unless you brake torque the 550i. Gas stations are hellholes and wastes of time. The M50 will be my third BMW and fifth EV.
 

·
Well-known member
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
I have children, and my DGAF is the only way to avoid going crazy about their future.
Don't rely on politicians, they just do what is necessary to get elected, the pressure has to come from the citizen, who is more worried about the shortage of toys at Christmas than about COP26.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think looking at emissions of modern cars compared to EVs is ideological academic approach to the trending talk of global climate emissions, considering how much the total emissions of private cars are, and then only looking at the delta between those two options and the cost. I will certainly not feel guilty in any shape or form for not driving an EV.
If you only drive to work, you can cut your car emissions in half by moving closer to work. You can ride a bike and get some exercise. Never engage in cryptocurrency speculation. Buy one pair of shoes of nice quality instead of three pairs of cheap ones. I do all of those things. The list goes on, but those things don't fit so neatly in the public narrative, visually speaking, as big meanies with their cars where you can see some vapor and smoke coming out of the back. I drive my car maybe 8000km a year or less.

The internal combustion engine is perfected at this point, and has extremely low emissions compared to what it was like some decades ago. BMW states that they use 70% less energy to produce a car today than in 2000, considering the whole supply chain. Low hanging fruit for the individual are found in consumer patterns, the idea of what is the good life (consumerism), but are dwarfed by global energy consumption of dirty fossil fuels, methane from cows and deforestation.
 

·
Registered
i4 M50 19" 861M Sanremo green
Joined
·
1,567 Posts
This is almost all false. Every study attacking EVs as being big carbon producers is politically motivated and based on layer upon layer of false assumptions, bad science, and evil intent. Sorry. You are not doing anything good buy buying an ICE, unless perhaps you're running on biodiesel.

Now if you DGAF, that's fine. Your moral choice. I would enjoy the hell out of a 911, but I can't bring myself to make that choice when I can afford far greener options.

Also, gas stations suck sweaty balls.
It is not false. Polestar is one of the most reputable names in EV production, and they disclosed their analysis of carbon footprint of building and using an EV vs ICE. The black portion is the manufacturing process, showing clearly that Polestar's releases 25 tons to make an EV vs. 15 tons for an ICE car, however of course the ICE spews out a lot more carbon in use than the EV. We can't progress without having a fact-based nuanced understanding of the science.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
Polestar press release: Polestar Global Media Newsroom

My power company provides 50% renewable power to my home, with the rest being largely natural gas and nuclear. I'll soon upgrade to the 100% renewable version. Our solar panels generate about 1/3 of our power. I'm in California, which buys the largest share of US EVs. 40-50%, though that number is dropping just as the share of renewables in the power mix is rising.

So which column do we use for choosing the lifetime CO2? Even worst case, the ICE is worse. Best case, the ICE is over twice as bad. Reality is far closer to best case, since the Maltese are not major EV purchasers compared to, say, the Swedes. Guess which country has greener power.

So, essentially, the idea that EVs are not a significant improvement over ICE is false. EVs are significantly better, and that delta is only going to grow as power moves away from coal across the world, and grow even more as power moves to renewables, and grow even more as car companies begin reusing and recycling old batteries.
 

·
Registered
i4 M50 19" 861M Sanremo green
Joined
·
1,567 Posts
So looking at the chart, since the red portion represents 200,000 km of driving, yes over 200,000 km the ICE Volvo emits more than the electrical Polestar, however due to the higher emissions associated with building the car, at half life 100,000km the emissions are neck in neck at around 175 g/km. A.similar pattern can be seen for the UE more.basic car, at half life a wash at 125 g/km approx., then as usage continues of course the ICE emits more. The other perspective I was offering to @Inception is that at this moment, given a choice between buying a used ICE (which has been built already so the carbon is in the air already) and driving 200,000km with it would net 210 g/km, slightly less than ordering a new Polestar, having it built and driving it for 200,000 km. Of course if there was a sizable market of used EVs, buying a used EV would be the lowest emission choice, but here is the weakness of older EVs, after 200,000km the older technology battery would start holding significantly less charge, making a such a choice less attractive. Again, this is the view from today, battery technology for new cars are a lot better and recycling batteries is a new nascent industry that will change the build emissions drastically for the better (eg if a new EV was built from 50% recycled batteries, the build phase emissions would be less than the equivalent ICE new build).
The conversation about EV vs ICE has been so politicized, we often forget that it's not only about the whole industry sticking with building and selling ICE vs switching to EV, but each of us has to make a choice today in today's market place, and getting a car we would want to drive may not be possible as an EV (delivery in 8 months vs buying a used car). If it were up to me, we would be stopping the build of new ICE, but thrashing all existing ICE cars is NOT feasible nor desireable.
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Top