[cruzer666]

I didn't notice any delays in the 2022 demo car either.

I think it's mostly a perception issue (AKA different transition type on iDrive vs a phone). The only time I really see a solid 1-2 seconds delay is when I open the Spotify App, or Weather App (1 second) and searching points of interests could be faster but that could depend on connectivity. Any other vehicle function is quick.

Also, if you try scroll left and right through the tiles, the refresh rate is not the same as a phone's so you notice a slowness. Lower refresh rate is not the same as lag though.

Well, I've never seen a video review of the system without lag so I would guess it is more down to if you notice things like that or not. My parents see no difference between a high refresh rate screen or a 60 Hz screen, I find using a 60 Hz screen very annoying. I do think going into menus like climate and such should be instant, shouldn't be able to think between pressing the button and it happening.

Have you tried Apple CarPlay? I find in much smoother, smartphone like if that's your preference.

 

[Techwhiz1]

The use of outdated tech, slow interface, UI not matured enough, etc are the main issues with any electric vehicle right now. Everyone is in the race to capitalize on the EV trend to not miss out. My guess is, in about 5 years, the tech will be mature enough with every manufacturer at least a base line tech be inline with others.
My other EV order, Fisker Ocean is going to be using 6 year old processor for its infotainment/main control computer, I am already concerned with its capability in the next few years. Same with i4 and iX. With everything controlled within the touch screen, software can only be optimized so much that at one point hardware becomes the bottleneck.
With that said, I am thoroughly disappointed in Tesla's driver aid tech even with its new ryzen processor. Its snappy and UI looked much polished than on BMW but there were other things, like, DAPP which is miles ahead of basic or enhanced autopilot. But at today's price we are comparing $54K Tesla(Model 3 performance) to $70K i4 (M50). That is $16K difference. A lot to think about. Probably an Kia/Hyundai has newer tech than i4, but that doesn't mean i4 is less capable.
If i4 were available today, I will forgo my Tesla and Fisker Ocean orders even understanding I will be getting a laggy UI, smaller interior and less range but, that is not the case. Also, i4 is no where near premium for what you get for the price. At almost $80K, you don't even get electrically adjustable steering wheel. For most, it doesn't matter, but at that price point I expect it to have such basic features. And yet, I will buy an i4 is I could get one quickly. If I want en EV now, there is very less option without paying a hefty upcharge. Only Tesla is able to supply cars quickly, all the major ICE manufacturers are just trying to play catch-up. And all the EV only manufacturers are barely able to produce a small portion of their orders, that too with limited functionalities. My Fisker Ocean order is supposed to get one pedal driving and torque vectoring added later via OTA. Such is the state of manufacturers. Some are trying to get the cars out on time even if the features are not ready, and some are just waiting for the features to be ready and delaying the roll outs.

The embedded/industrial processor is always going lag behind a consumer grade processor.

Tesla plays on the ragged edge and comparing Tesla to a traditional car company that actually listens to regulators isn't quite a fair comparison.

Software can be optimized enough where processor doesn't lag if you profile the code and remove polling loops and use a modular interrupt driven structure.

That $16k difference in price gets you into a game where Tesla can't play. Things like laser lights, HUD, leather, guage cluster, adaptive suspension, 360 camera, real cross traffic warning, etc. If you take a "stripper" M50 and only add PAP, DAPP; you are at $72k. Now compare that to a TM3 performance with enhanced Autopilot at $61k.

That's an $11k difference and you get HUD and other stuff you will not get on a TM3. And mind you only the basic TM3 gets the $7500 and if your household has a combined income of $300k you hit the income limit and you don't get that.

People complain about the weight of the M50 and then ask for things like electric steering adjust. That adds weight. Also BMW has never put electric steering column on any 3/4 series and until the E36 it wasn't even adjustable.

Tesla lowered it's price because they had a glut of inventory and they hear footsteps. They are seeing people willing to wait for cars from the competition and not buy theirs.

You talk about shipping cars with creatures that will be added later, but isn't that what Tesla has been doing with FSD? You can't give Tesla a pass on adding/removing hardware and features and penalize and blast others. Tesla removed auto park recently and promised it will return.

I'm paying close to $90k after tax and license for my M50 and there isn't a price point where I would skip the M50 and get a Tesla. Same for my Fisker; close to $78k out the door and I wouldn't take a TMY instead at any price point.

So all this discussion is great, but I can't be convinced that a Tesla is an option for me. If I wanted a basic EV, I'd buy another Bolt or something really cost effective.

For me it's the upper end or basic EV and the Tesla isn't high end and it's still too expensive to be a basic EV.

Waiting for my M50......

 

[trj]

The embedded/industrial processor is always going lag behind a consumer grade processor.

Tesla plays on the ragged edge and comparing Tesla to a traditional car company that actually listens to regulators isn't quite a fair comparison.

Software can be optimized enough where processor doesn't lag if you profile the code and remove polling loops and use a modular interrupt driven structure.

That $16k difference in price gets you into a game where Tesla can't play. Things like laser lights, HUD, leather, guage cluster, adaptive suspension, 360 camera, real cross traffic warning, etc. If you take a "stripper" M50 and only add PAP, DAPP; you are at $72k. Now compare that to a TM3 performance with enhanced Autopilot at $61k.

That's an $11k difference and you get HUD and other stuff you will not get on a TM3. And mind you only the basic TM3 gets the $7500 and if your household has a combined income of $300k you hit the income limit and you don't get that.

People complain about the weight of the M50 and then ask for things like electric steering adjust. That adds weight. Also BMW has never put electric steering column on any 3/4 series and until the E36 it wasn't even adjustable.

Tesla lowered it's price because they had a glut of inventory and they hear footsteps. They are seeing people willing to wait for cars from the competition and not buy theirs.

You talk about shipping cars with creatures that will be added later, but isn't that what Tesla has been doing with FSD? You can't give Tesla a pass on adding/removing hardware and features and penalize and blast others. Tesla removed auto park recently and promised it will return.

I'm paying close to $90k after tax and license for my M50 and there isn't a price point where I would skip the M50 and get a Tesla. Same for my Fisker; close to $78k out the door and I wouldn't take a TMY instead at any price point.

So all this discussion is great, but I can't be convinced that a Tesla is an option for me. If I wanted a basic EV, I'd buy another Bolt or something really cost effective.

For me it's the upper end or basic EV and the Tesla isn't high end and it's still too expensive to be a basic EV.

Waiting for my M50......

Well put. That is exactly what I mean as well. Tesla played its game right to get the inventory cleared up, just like traditional car companies/dealers do when they have overflowing inventory. Also, for people like me who were on the fence whether to purchase an EV or not, the price cut and tax incentive is a cheap way to experiment. To me, whichever EV I buy, its going to be a fresh experience, so if I am able to get my hands on an EV at MSRP quickly, I am going with it to see if EV is for me or not. You already had experience of what you want from an EV and know exactly why you want i4 and not a Tesla. I have zero EV experience, and if I don't like Tesla, I still have Fisker and i4 on the line to see if I like them better. Now, if i4 had been delivered, I may not have even looked at any other EVs because I am biased to BMW Also, please do not take me wrong when I said with Fisker, some of their tech is coming later. I brought it into discussion because we are all expecting the best from the manufacturers. They can easily pull a Tesla and say, 'its not required'. In fact Henrik Fisker said there will be apple CarPlay and HUD and later redacted saying its not required because what they have is better. Now, with i4 owners complaining at the lag, I just can't trust Fisker till I see it actually being implemented and working. I am not happy with what tech Tesla is offering/included/excluded/promised. I very much like BMW tech, even my 2015 BMWs have better tech than the model Y we test drove. But the reality is, I still don't know when the i4 or Fisker will come, and we are at a point where waiting is being getting pretty frustrating.
The tax credit is just an incentive that we never considered, its just a bonus if we get it with Tesla. We may be over 300k income limit this year, but if we play our cards right, we might be able to bring AGI under 300k this year and get the credit. This puts us at little to no loss, as we can take $7500 + $2000(state credit) hit if we sell Tesla when we actually get i4 or Fisker. I actually feel Fisker will come sooner than i4. You have been waiting for such a long time, you know how it feels.
I do not have problem with weight, range or styling of i4, but I do have issue with its non powered steering wheel. It is just going to be a constant struggle for us every time we get in the car, and at close to $80K, that struggle is going be a constant reminder of 'what if' and yet, we put deposit for it because we really like BMW as a car company.
We cannot bring 30 year old cars like e36/e46 into picture for the sake of argument. $80k was over m3 territory for e36 and e46. Yes, we lived with it and it wasn't a problem then, but now such tech is being offered in the other vehicles in the same category. Just like we are comparing what extra $16K can get in an i4 against Model 3 while they are competing in the same segment.

I really like this civil, constructive discussion here. Long story short, I know 4 people who ordered a Tesla after they announced price drop. They were all waiting for some EVs just like me, and this Tesla is going to be a stop gap till. But who knows, they might convert and other EV companies loose 4 customers. Tesla did disrupt this market.

 

[TStriker]

creatures that will be added later

That's why I keep mine in the garage overnight

 

[Larry]

We have been BMW owners for the last 20 years. Our last 5 cars were BMWs and still own 2.
We never has any electric or hybrid vehicles. We work from home so gas price is really no bother to us. However, we have been itching to try an electric vehicle for quite some time.
With BMW taking forever to even give my order an allocation for our i4 M50, we have started looking at alternatives. I have a deposit on Fisker Ocean Extreme and i4 M50. The first electric vehicles I test drove was i4 e40, then i4 M50 and iX. I loved the driving dynamics on both i4 M50 and iX. Honestly, i4 is a little too small for us since we have a toddler in rear facing car seat. But was willing to make a compromise since she will be in a front facing car seat by the time our car comes. But coming from a 5 series and X5, there are obvious luxury compromises I will have to make on the i4.
Fisker Ocean, no one has driven it or have reviews so, its up in the air. We like how it looks and the said performance numbers, so we put a $250 binding order back in August 2022.
Now, the price of Model Y, with tax credit is very enticing. So, we put an order for a model Y unseen, never been in a Tesla or drove one. We went for a test drive yesterday, and honestly, the drive wasn't bad and the space was huge, rear leg room is miles better than even in my X5. But the interior felt cheap and tech on my 2015 X5 is better than in Tesla. The actual blind spot indicators in the mirror, lane skip vibration on the wheels, surround view, sensors, HUD, everything my 5 and X5 has is absent in Tesla. Also, the steering wheel felt really cheap. But one pedal driving was really easy to adapt to. It took me, two minutes from 'This is crap' to 'I like it'.

The reason we ordered a model Y is to test whether we would want to even commit to electric cars. Also if we don't like it, we are hoping we can sell it without much loss with the tax credit. Its just a stop gap while we wait for i4 or Fisker Ocean. And if we do like Tesla, we will keep for a couple of years, till i5 or new Classe 3 series becomes available.
So, there, I have orders for 3 completely different EVs. Don't know which one I will keep. haha.

I was also a BMW owner for 20 years. I then had 3 Teslas in succession, first a 2 wheel drive Model S, then a 4WD Model S, and finally a Model 3 (which I liked more than the S - I don't have young kids, so the room wasn't much of an issue for me). I now have an i4 e40. I didn't think the extra money for the M50 was worthwhile. I love the i4. I think it's much more of a driver's car than the Tesla. i also got annoyed with the Tesla's focus on tech (bragging about no buttons or knobs). For example, to open the glove box, you need to push the display twice. Moving air vents is on the display. That became a little bit of an issue. Having said that, you won't go wrong with the Y in general, but I love my i4

 

[Techwhiz1]

That's why I keep mine in the garage overnight

You know auto correct is the work of Satan. [emoji23][emoji1787]

Waiting for my M50......

 

[ssh]

I don’t find anything responsive, compare the BMW navigation to say running google maps on a modern phone and it’s laggy as hell. Any panning, any button presses all have a delay. One of the reasons it is unusable to me and I have to use CarPlay for all navigation (except when I need battery preconditioning).

Same goes for pressing the home button, sometimes I press it multiple times before it reacts. It’s like using the most budget Android device in 2012, not a premium experience at all.

Once again, your experience doesn't align with mine (or others on i4talk).

 

[collinsc]

Once again, your experience doesn't align with mine (or others on i4talk).

Maybe I’m wrong… but doesn’t CarPlay just generate the UI elements on the phone itself, and stream that “video” back to the head unit for display? So in the end, the head unit only has to show the output and capture touch / wheel input. Pretty good idea to keep comparability up through many model years of CarPlay functionality, and increase performance via new handsets and software updates.

take that all day over embedded infotainment… including Teslas

 

[ssh]

Maybe I’m wrong… but doesn’t CarPlay just generate the UI elements on the phone itself, and stream that “video” back to the head unit for display? So in the end, the head unit only has to show the output and capture touch / wheel input. Pretty good idea to keep comparability up through many model years of CarPlay functionality, and increase performance via new handsets and software updates.

take that all day over embedded infotainment… including Teslas

Yes, but the display has to be supported along with the protocols (like GPS for maps which is provided by the car since the phone doesn't get clear sky from inside the vehicle for GPS reception). Tesla refuses to implement CarPlay.

 

[BMWdav]

Once again, your experience doesn't align with mine (or others on i4talk).

Funnily enough in this case it is documented in just about every review or walkthrough of the infotainment system. I've even posted 2 links and pointed out the lag/delay in them and it can be seen in loads more if you want more links. It seems that this forum is like the Tesla forum, where talking about the poor build quality would get people claiming their Model 3 is much better built than their last 7-series and more luxurious as well. Because apparently buying a product means you have to think it is the best in every category and no faults can be found.

The world isn't black or white, some things are really good on the i4 and others are not. Talking about what is bad is how the manufacturer knows what to improve.

 

[Techwhiz1]

Funnily enough in this case it is documented in just about every review or walkthrough of the infotainment system. I've even posted 2 links and pointed out the lag in them. So it seems that this forum is like the Tesla forum, where talking about the poor build quality will get people claiming their Model 3 is much better built than their last 7-series and more luxurious as well. Because apparently buying a product means you have to think it is the best in every category and no faults can be found.

The world isn't black or white, some things are really good on the i4 and others are not. Talking about what is bad is how the manufacturer knows what to improve.

If it has lag; it has lag.
Just means that they need to clean up the software and/or improve hardware in the next generation.

I didn't notice it lagging when I test drive but I didn't use it much. But that wouldn't have changed me buying it.

Waiting for my M50......

 

[BMWdav]

If it has lag; it has lag.
Just means that they need to clean up the software and/or improve hardware in the next generation.

I didn't notice it lagging when I test drive but I didn't use it much. But that wouldn't have changed me buying it.

Waiting for my M50......

Yeah the lag clearly didn't stop me from buying the car, nor did the infotainmentsystem that I don't find very modern. But if I could choose I'd rather have a infotainment system that is more modern with no lag than what I have now, which is the whole point of talking about it. Trying to sweep shortcomings under the carpet doesn't improve products for the next generation. That is what I think is the interesting part about forums like these are, talking competition and what should be improved.

What is there to talk about if you are happy with everything? Being content is the most dangerous thing for further progression.

 

[BMWdav]

As for cars in general I am starting to become a bit bored now after 4 months, no fun updates have happened and no new features arrived so it is more or less the same as when I bought it. Which means since it is mostly sitting in the garage anyway it isn't much fun happening with the car and I get very bored, constant movement is needed for me.

Been eyeing the new Model S a bit since I can get it for around $10k more than the i4 but the wife doesn't want such a wide car again, especially not since she has gotten used to the BMW having a camera in the front of the car (and 360 camera) for pulling in and out of the tighter garage. If the Model S had the same camera setup I could probably convince her to switch but no deal.

Might try to hold out for the Polestar 4 that seems interesting but that is around a year away and if I am bored after 4 months I don't think I will last that long.

 

[ashley1960]

As for cars in general I am starting to become a bit bored now after 4 months, no fun updates have happened and no new features arrived so it is more or less the same as when I bought it. Which means since it is mostly sitting in the garage anyway it isn't much fun happening with the car and I get very bored, constant movement is needed for me.

Been eyeing the new Model S a bit since I can get it for around $10k more than the i4 but the wife doesn't want such a wide car again, especially not since she has gotten used to the BMW having a camera in the front of the car (and 360 camera) for pulling in and out of the tighter garage. If the Model S had the same camera setup I could probably convince her to switch but no deal.

Might try to hold out for the Polestar 4 that seems interesting but that is around a year away and if I am bored after 4 months I don't think I will last that long.

Do you not think that whatever car you had you would get bored with it once you get used to it. If we have a ‘dream car’ then we acquire that car and there is no way it can live up to our expectations, it just familiarity!

 

[BMWdav]

Do you not think that whatever car you had you would get bored with it once you get used to it. If we have a ‘dream car’ then we acquire that car and there is no way it can live up to our expectations, it just familiarity!

Well yes, but with how the EV market has been I just got a new Tesla every 12-15 months or so because they changed enough to make it a fun upgrade. In the meantime they updated a lot in the infotainment system (and rest of the car) so it was always some fun feature that would drop in a few weeks that kept it interesting that kept the interest up longer, could probably have gone more than 2 years between switching out. When they removed the radar I cancelled that years switch because that didn't feel like an upgrade until they sorted it out.

Was waiting for my Polestar 2 order when the demo i4 M50 came up and I thought I might as well test it out, now the problem is I like it as a pure A to B transport vehicle since it is comfortable and quiet but I am terribly bored with it since nothing is happening and there's not a steady stream of new features. Even updating my 2022 to a 2023 wouldn't even give me much extra at all so I can't even try to do that.

 

[ashley1960]

Well yes, but with how the EV market has been I just got a new Tesla every 12-15 months or so because they changed enough to make it a fun upgrade. In the meantime they updated a lot in the infotainment system (and rest of the car) so it was always some fun feature that would drop in a few weeks that kept it interesting that kept the interest up longer, could probably have gone more than 2 years between switching out. When they removed the radar I cancelled that years switch because that didn't feel like an upgrade until they sorted it out.

Was waiting for my Polestar 2 order when the demo i4 M50 came up and I thought I might as well test it out, now the problem is I like it as a pure A to B transport vehicle since it is comfortable and quiet but I am terribly bored with it since nothing is happening and there's not a steady stream of new features. Even updating my 2022 to a 2023 wouldn't even give me much extra at all so I can't even try to do that.

A few years ago Tesla were modifying their cars all the time, the model S batteries were getting bigger and the performance improvements were happening regularly. The model 3 was the same initially, they put bigger batteries in 75-82 and improved range etc, not much is happening with Tesla, not much product coming through, I guess they have reached a comfortable technological position they seem happy with, they then concentrated on production numbers, now it’s ‘who we going to sell all these cars to’ hence the big price reductions. Maybe the new 4 motor i4 would be a good car for you let’s hope they actually get round to producing it!

 

[Marvellous]

A car without parking support? No

sensors went missing and no software solution for months, it’s ridiculous

 

[BMWdav]

A few years ago Tesla were modifying their cars all the time, the model S batteries were getting bigger and the performance improvements were happening regularly. The model 3 was the same initially, they put bigger batteries in 75-82 and improved range etc, not much is happening with Tesla, not much product coming through, I guess they have reached a comfortable technological position they seem happy with, they then concentrated on production numbers, now it’s ‘who we going to sell all these cars to’ hence the big price reductions. Maybe the new 4 motor i4 would be a good car for you let’s hope they actually get round to producing it!

Loads is happening on the Tesla side still, the jump from my 2020 Model 3 to the mid 2021 came with a new interior (including a 2 phone wireless charger), better soundproofing, a refined suspension, larger battery, more efficient motors, electric trunk control, double paned glass in the front (which meant it had less traffic noise than even the i4) and a heat pump. The mid 2022 I was getting was going to have the new Ryzen processor, Li-Ion battery instead of the 12v, double paned glass in the rear and heated wipers. We will see what 2023 brings hardware wise but so far the rumours points to a new camera setup for Autopilot that might enable 360 camera and a slight refresh of the front and rear of the car, you can say a lot about Tesla but they aren't standing still at least.

Add to that all the software updates that happened during that time, think I went through at least 2 redesigns of the UI which kept things interesting as well as many new interesting features.

If I am keeping the i4 I might have to start seeing it as just a transportation devices and get my fix for fun from other things like switching between iOS and Android every 6 months again or rebuilding my desktop every 4 months. Tesla was fun because it combined two of my interests, cars and tech so it kept me busy with constant changes. Need something to occupy my time since statistically I would expect to be alive for 55 more years or so...

 

[ssh]

Funnily enough in this case it is documented in just about every review or walkthrough of the infotainment system. I've even posted 2 links and pointed out the lag/delay in them and it can be seen in loads more if you want more links. It seems that this forum is like the Tesla forum, where talking about the poor build quality would get people claiming their Model 3 is much better built than their last 7-series and more luxurious as well. Because apparently buying a product means you have to think it is the best in every category and no faults can be found.

The world isn't black or white, some things are really good on the i4 and others are not. Talking about what is bad is how the manufacturer knows what to improve.

Ummm... yeah... no.

You don't like to believe others have a different experience than you do. But we do. At least I do. I've been in tech for more than 4 decades. I always have the newest devices because lag drives me insane (iPhone 14 Pro, M1 iPad, M1 Pro MacBook, etc.). I don't have significant "lag" in the iDrive menus. There are some UI transition choices which can add animation and other transition activities I find unnecessary (and why I turn some of this off on other OSs).

But, no, iDrive doesn't "stutter" or have other indications of OS context switches or other CPU/memory usage issues.

...and yes, I agree, you're ready for your new Tesla.

 

[ssh]

If I am keeping the i4 I might have to start seeing it as just a transportation devices and get my fix for fun from other things like switching between iOS and Android every 6 months again or rebuilding my desktop every 4 months. Tesla was fun because it combined two of my interests, cars and tech so it kept me busy with constant changes. Need something to occupy my time since statistically I would expect to be alive for 55 more years or so...

This kinda explains it all to me.

I'd rather be ripping up the powder at Copper, riding my mountain bike, hiking the Rockies, having great food and wine with friends, or even playing a few rounds of golf than screw around with intentional time sinks from all the mess created from changing OSs or devices for no productive reason. Yuck. Just no. I've got far better things to do with my time.

..and I want my car to just work when I get in, be predictable and familiar, and give me an enjoyable journey every time. And my i4 does that in spades.