[rollermonkey]

There's the issue, though. We know the car isn't obsolete. Later updates were rolled out for 8.0 in the EU than for the US. European members with '22 i4s aren't all stuck at 11/2023 or 03/2024

 

[pdk42]

My wife had an early VW ID.3 and this thread gives me PTSD since the themes are exactly what I read on various ID.3 forums. VW basically obsoleted the early ID.3's IT stack within six months of it being on the market. On top of that, they found it impossible to resolve and roll out even simple fixes. It took two years, three visits to the workshop, and one four-week outage after a dealer-installed update bricked the car for them to get scheduled charging working! And the problem wasn't specific to my car - it just took their software dev team that long to fix it! To this day, the early ID.3s don't support battery pre-conditioning for rapid chargering, despite the car's battery thermal management hardware being quite capable of doing so. As a result of their antics, I'm not going anywhere near a VW for a long time!

I can see that whilst BMW are not as bad as VW, they are still in the same mindset. They view the software as part of the spec of the car and don't expect to deliver much in the way of improvements over the car's life. New features will come in new cars and existing owners will just have to live with that. It's a very old mindset rooted in the days of ECUs provided by multiple sub-contractors like Bosch etc.

The problem for VW, BMW, and many others is that Tesla have changed the game and the expectations of how car software can be, and should be, handled. I ran Teslas from 2019 to just a few weeks ago (in fact, the Model Y is still on the drive waiting for the lease company to collect it). Say what you like about Tesla, but their software dev model is exemplary. I got an update on average every 18 days over that whole six years of ownership and the car was never bricked, nor had anything worse than minor regressions, all of which were fixed in short measure. And I got some major new features along the way (but let's not talk about disabling the front radar sensor!).

Of course, I knew all this going into ownership of an i4. I'm not expecting much, if anything, in the way of upgrades, but for sure it's disappointing nonetheless.

 

[rollermonkey]

The problem for VW, BMW, and many others is that Tesla have changed the game and the expectations of how car software can be, and should be, handled. I ran Teslas from 2019 to just a few weeks ago (in fact, the Model Y is still on the drive waiting for the lease company to collect it). Say what you like about Tesla, but their software dev model is exemplary. I got an update on average every 18 days over that whole six years of ownership and the car was never bricked, nor had anything worse than minor regressions, all of which were fixed in short measure. And I got some major new features along the way (but let's not talk about disabling the front radar sensor!)

Conversely, a problem with Tesla is that your controls / menus would often be changed every 18 days, meaning as soon as you figured out where something had moved, it might move again. Not a "feature" that I was fond of.

 

[xyrBimmer]

Conversely, a problem with Tesla is that your controls / menus would often be changed every 18 days, meaning as soon as you figured out where something had moved, it might move again. Not a "feature" that I was fond of.

While I agree 100% that controls moving every 18 months would be annoying to say the least, the fact remains that, as @pdk42 said, Tesla (and some capacity Apple and Google) have changed the expectations of software and software updates.

I sent this "feature request" to BMW, but I know it's a futile attempt. Asked for 8.0 to have 8.5's climate controls shortcuts in the home page. To me, it doesn't make sense that if I want to turn up the fan speed, I have to tap into Climate Controls first. If controls are moved to screens, at least put the most relevant front and center. Fan speed and A/C on/off get moved to the screen, yet defroster and defogger keep their physical buttons

I think I found iDrive 8.0's full code:

 

[lefkonj]

BMW doesn't care what you think about this, you bought the vehicle and they won't update iDrive8 so we all just have to accept that. It's pathetic that we couldn't get 8.5 when it was just a software change. I get the backend hardware on a newer I4 might have changed but BMW should have upgraded my 6 month old i4 to 8.5 but was told 'They will never do that'

 

[Mr. Widget]

BMW doesn't care what you think about this, you bought the vehicle and they won't update iDrive8 so we all just have to accept that. It's pathetic that we couldn't get 8.5 when it was just a software change. I get the backend hardware on a newer I4 might have changed but BMW should have upgraded my 6 month old i4 to 8.5 but was told 'They will never do that'

I just spent last month with a 2025 i4 loaner that had iDrive 8.5 and even after getting used to 8.5, I still prefer iDrive 8. That said, it seems like it wouldn't be hard to give us the option to choose features and layouts so you could have the features and layout of 8.5 and I could keep the layout of 8.0.

 

[bbgator]

BMW doesn't care what you think about this, you bought the vehicle and they won't update iDrive8

I agree they don't care after sale. It doesn't matter if it is a physical limitation or not. All car manufacturers should provide the ability for future releases. I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware couldn't run 8.5. In the old days, car companies would design their software to fit in the smallest size ROMs to save even pennies. In the world of OTA and storage is extremely cheap, everyone should have headroom, but BMW is an old car company and probably would spend millions in non-recurring costs to save a few dollars on each vehicle even if it sacrifices the ability to change things in tthe future. No one outside of BMW knows the reason why 8.5 isn't available on older i4s, but we all know it has to do with cost, either when they built the car or now.

 

[i4m50Norway]

I agree they don't care after sale. It doesn't matter if it is a physical limitation or not. All car manufacturers should provide the ability for future releases. I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware couldn't run 8.5. In the old days, car companies would design their software to fit in the smallest size ROMs to save even pennies. In the world of OTA and storage is extremely cheap, everyone should have headroom, but BMW is an old car company and probably would spend millions in non-recurring costs to save a few dollars on each vehicle even if it sacrifices the ability to change things in tthe future. No one outside of BMW knows the reason why 8.5 isn't available on older i4s, but we all know it has to do with cost, either when they built the car or now.

Remember that the i4 was released during the global chip shortage. 8.0 runs Linux on Intel
(Atom A3960. RAM is 8GB LPDDR4 2400MT/s (4X 2GB Micron D9WHW)),

https://fccid.io/T8GMGU21/Internal-Photos/I-K21-MGU21-HU-Internal-photos-V4-16-10-2020-4965590.pdf

You also see that this is from Harmon (Harmon-Kardon) owned by Samsung, another reason for "Neue Klasse" with "BMW brains".
8.5 runs Arm on Linux ?, while iDrive9 runs on Android OS, while iDriveX (Neue Klasse) runs on "BMW proprietary HW"?
iDrive9 development was probably on its way, so they decided to call the new version 8.5.

I agree that they could invest more in 8.0, but also understands that the very small customer base on 8.0 is not very much prioritised (Only first years of production of iX and i4 with curved display), everything else was at iDrive7 without curved display (parallel 4-series)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932023_global_chip_shortage

 

[lefkonj]

I agree they don't care after sale. It doesn't matter if it is a physical limitation or not. All car manufacturers should provide the ability for future releases. I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware couldn't run 8.5. In the old days, car companies would design their software to fit in the smallest size ROMs to save even pennies. In the world of OTA and storage is extremely cheap, everyone should have headroom, but BMW is an old car company and probably would spend millions in non-recurring costs to save a few dollars on each vehicle even if it sacrifices the ability to change things in tthe future. No one outside of BMW knows the reason why 8.5 isn't available on older i4s, but we all know it has to do with cost, either when they built the car or now.

The pathetic thing is you can run new IOS on a 5 year old iPhone, or new software on a 6 year old XBOX. They figured it out and they won the software and the hardware. BMW owns both as well they just don't get it. I am not asking for new LIDAR functions, or things of that nature, but the HVAC controls in 8.5 are much better and that is all touchscreen/software, they could do it.

The traditional manufactures need to adapt to this or the new guys will continue to hurt them.

 

[i4m50Norway]

You cannot run software from old Intel based Mac's on new ARM based Mac's, but you can build software that runs on both of them - the same could BMW do. Hardware in iDrive 8/8.5is from Intel/Arm and Harmon, and they had to change CPU during the war/chip availibility crisis. I think it was quite impressive that BMW and the other European car manufacturers managed to keep production running most of the time. There are stories about factories bombed the night, before the tools was planned to be moved out of the war sones of Ukraina.

 

[bbgator]

The pathetic thing is you can run new IOS on a 5 year old iPhone

7 year currently. My iPhone XR is from September 2018 and running iOS 8.5. This September will be 7 years when it may or may not get an update, either way I'm getting iPhone 17 Pro Max, so it doesn't matter to me.

There are stories about factories bombed the night, before the tools was planned to be moved out of the war

Wrong forum for political stuff, but just sad. War drives up the cost of everything and fools keep these people in power because they need to blame someone for their lack of success.

 

[J_P]

The pathetic thing is you can run new IOS on a 5 year old iPhone

Just not the same thing at all.

iPhone is basically just IOS. It's what makes all the useful stuff happen. There also millions of the things in circulation so the cost of development per installation is much lower.

I bought an i4 because I wanted a car and an enjoyable driving experience. The software interface is a small part of that and for my purposes it does the job. Yeah, I could make a bunch of suggestions about what would make it a little better but it won't change my life and it would only make a tiny difference to my driving experience.

I've worked in IT for 40 years and seen so many OS updates and it is very rare for me to feel I have gained anything genuinely useful. In a world that is falling apart I really struggle to give one about font inconsistencies in my car. Or that it is missing a widget a later version has. Or that I have to go through two menus to activate something, whereas I can do it from the main screen in OS version 1.1.

I'm going to lie down in a dark room now.

 

[xyrBimmer]

Just not the same thing at all.

iPhone is basically just IOS. It's what makes all the useful stuff happen. There also millions of the things in circulation so the cost of development per installation is much lower.

I bought an i4 because I wanted a car and an enjoyable driving experience. The software interface is a small part of that and for my purposes it does the job. Yeah, I could make a bunch of suggestions about what would make it a little better but it won't change my life and it would only make a tiny difference to my driving experience.

I've worked in IT for 40 years and seen so many OS updates and it is very rare for me to feel I have gained anything genuinely useful. In a world that is falling apart I really struggle to give one about font inconsistencies in my car. Or that it is missing a widget a later version has. Or that I have to go through two menus to activate something, whereas I can do it from the main screen in OS version 1.1.

I'm going to lie down in a dark room now.

Oh yeah, well, counterpoint...I have 20 years in IT, and they could make stuff backwards compatible and while it's not as simple as an iPhone...umm...so see the problem is that, well you know....

Stop making sense man!

 

[AdrianBall65]

I stopped in my local dealer yesterday to get a bolt tightened on the left side driver door. It was slightly loose and making a loud noise each and every time I opened or closed the door. I told him about having issues with the Apple CarPlay and he felt this happens when Apple or BMW issues an update, and the two are not in sync. I told him it’s a frequent issue and he really didn’t have a great response. He did not offer to help me bring the car in and most likely he knows the exact issue that is causing this.

I have the exact same issue and yes it does seem yto coincide with updates. I get a 'Bluetooth version' not recognized error message.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I have the exact same issue and yes it does seem yto coincide with updates. I get a 'Bluetooth version' not recognized error message.

Yep, I have this happen periodically and yes, it is annoying. That said, you simply press in the volume knob to reboot the system and 90% of the time it is fixed, the other times you have to hold it longer for three reboots.

As annoying as that is, I have the advantage of having previously owned a 2022 VW. It had the same problem, but the only way to reboot it was to pull over, turn off the car and wait about 15 minutes. Not very practical when you need to use your CarPlay nav to get to a meeting and you don't have an extra 15 minutes to wait for your car to reboot.

I am happy to live with the minor issues that iDrive 8 has.

 

[Markus E]

I am having the same issue with my 2022 i4 on 8.0 with the new 2025 software update. My work iPhone 14 works fine but my personal 16 Pro is not connecting. I did the reset with no success but didn’t wait 15 minutes. Is this an issue with 2025 software update?

 

[Mr. Widget]

I am having the same issue with my 2022 i4 on 8.0 with the new 2025 software update. My work iPhone 14 works fine but my personal 16 Pro is not connecting. I did the reset with no success but didn’t wait 15 minutes. Is this an issue with 2025 software update?

I think you mis-understood my post. There is no need to wait 15 minutes, that was referring to my extremely lame VW.

Here is the iDrive reboot procedure:

 

[Markus E]

I think you mis-understood my post. There is no need to wait 15 minutes, that was referring to my extremely lame VW.

Here is the iDrive reboot procedure:
View attachment 50178

Thanks option #2 worked for me. This forum is really great. Usually my first stop before attempting to call BMW Genius line.

 

[xyrBimmer]

Thanks option #2 worked for me. This forum is really great. Usually my first stop before attempting to call BMW Genius line.

They're now usually my 3rd stop, or no stop at all

More often than not, you'll find or get the correct answer here faster than the "Genius" line.

 

[fundus]

I agree they don't care after sale. It doesn't matter if it is a physical limitation or not. All car manufacturers should provide the ability for future releases. I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware couldn't run 8.5. In the old days, car companies would design their software to fit in the smallest size ROMs to save even pennies. In the world of OTA and storage is extremely cheap, everyone should have headroom, but BMW is an old car company and probably would spend millions in non-recurring costs to save a few dollars on each vehicle even if it sacrifices the ability to change things in tthe future. No one outside of BMW knows the reason why 8.5 isn't available on older i4s, but we all know it has to do with cost, either when they built the car or now.

I've spent a good part of the morning reading through this topic from the beginning. And so far it seems that anyone who has 8.0 then gets a chance to experience 8.5 doesn't like it. So even though BMW says you can't do it, or won't do it, doesn't seem to matter because the difference is minimal, and whatever advantages it has over 8.0 the majority who've experienced both prefer the older version. Most of the argument seems to follow the philosophy of why the won't make the upgrade possible, not that it's "in demand" because of all the new features it has, at least this is what it seems like after almost 3 years of opening this discussion. A lot of interesting takes and complaints, but I just got my 23' a couple of months ago and I love the car, and since I have nothing to compare it to, the version 8.0 works fine with my needs, I can't think of any scenarios where any updates to menus or displays would change my mind, but you never know what the future will have to offer. Maybe one day when we're all gone they'll be saying "remember when they used to put screens in cars"?

As far as FSD goes with Tesla or Waymo, I think it's a joke to think this is going to work with the complexity of everything involved not just within the technology to make it work. From my layman understanding from what I've read and watched experts talk about FSD, they all agreed that Tesla's camera only system will never work safely enough to be fully autonomous and without the use of LIDAR. Look at the Tesla Robotaxi experiments going on right now, they are not doing as well as Waymo and those aren't reliable either. I personally think FSD is like a marketing scam, just to try and say "we did first" kind of thing.

It's not just entire automotive industry that's in this weird gray zone in 2025, but the world in general is seemingly in a constant state of flux. I'll stop here before I go way off topic, but I think everyone is kind of feeling the same way about technology and how it affects that faster and faster changing world. We'll always behind the newest purchase, and the cost and complexity it takes for these companies to adapt or even exist at times is pretty incredible.