[Clerkpalmer]

I was struggling with the iphone upload. Screenshots are added. Today is the 1 year anniversary with the car also.

That’s a lot of miles for 1 year. 9 to 10 percent in 1 year would be a lot of degradation and at least in the Tesla world would be high. I had about 8 percent loss in my Tesla over 2 years and even that was a bit high.

 

[cruzer666]

I think I might be winning? Or losing?

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You have quite a bit more miles though and significantly more charging sessions. Let’s get more outputs before making a judgement.

 

[me1]

12mos/15kmi of CarData. Car was delivered in November and initial degradation is not available.

 

[Clerkpalmer]

I'm wondering if anyone that just took delivery if they're willing to share results.

My car has 2k miles. Delivery in November. What’s the BT dongle needed? I hope I’m not sorry I went checking on this. lol.

 

[Clerkpalmer]

You have quite a bit more miles though and significantly more charging sessions. Let’s get more outputs before making a judgement.

He does but under any circumstances 10 percent in 1 year is a lot. So either the data isn’t good or OP has a gripe with BMW. That really shouldn’t happen in 1 year.

 

[cruzer666]

That’s a lot of miles for 1 year. 9 to 10 percent in 1 year would be a lot of degradation and at least in the Tesla world would be high. I had about 8 percent loss in my Tesla over 2 years and even that was a bit high.

So not just calendar aging impacts battery health, then, correct ?

My car has 2k miles. Delivery in November. What’s the BT dongle needed? I hope I’m not sorry I went checking on this. lol.

This one is made for BimmerCode/Utility/Flow:
https://a.co/d/eqBh92X

There are pricer options though like OBDLink MX, but this one is wireless and should get the job done.

 

[cruzer666]

Let’s remember the app is in Beta and not rush to any judgement at this point.

 

[Clerkpalmer]

Let’s remember the app is in Beta and not rush to any judgement at this point.

Totally agree that was my original point but several jumped in to defend it.

 

[Clerkpalmer]

So not just calendar aging impacts battery health, then, correct ?

This one is made for BimmerCode/Utility/Flow:
https://a.co/d/eqBh92X

There are pricer options though like OBDLink MX, but this one is wireless and should get the job done.

Thanks. Scared ….

 

[Clerkpalmer]

So not just calendar aging impacts battery health, then, correct ?

This one is made for BimmerCode/Utility/Flow:
https://a.co/d/eqBh92X

There are pricer options though like OBDLink MX, but this one is wireless and should get the job done.

I don’t say calendar aging was the only culprit just the most likely. This isn’t really a secret. Also until we know the data is real and unless we know what the delivery capacity is, it doesn’t really tell us much. As I mentioned we have evidence of Teslas with 80kwh battery packs being delivered with 77-78 and some delivered with 81. A lot of this is luck. If you really want to control things, the best you can do is consistently keep your car at as low of a SOC as you can get away with. In the Tesla, this meant decreased performance but at least with the i4 we haven’t seen any evidence of that. Somoene was quick to suggest that the folks who charge 100 percent regularly will pay the price and I think that’s a naive way of looking at this. You can do everything right and have a lot of degradation.

 

[Clerkpalmer]

The good news is because performance seems to hold at lower SOC I don’t feel compelled to charge to 80 every night which theoretically means I can keep my battery at a lower SOC overall and in turn means less degradation (of the non calendar type).

 

[david594]

So far, the data from this app is looking pretty useful to me.

The big question is how is this app data affected by other factors? If the battery is 20 degrees warmer or cooler does that change what is reported?

 

[cruzer666]

The big question is how is this app data affected by other factors? If the battery is 20 degrees warmer or cooler does that change what is reported?

It will be interesting to see at summer time how the data changes. We have learned the i4 doesn’t mind heat at all. Increased efficiency, BMS reported capacity, etc. The more people report the better idea we will have.

 

[Clerkpalmer]

It will be interesting to see at summer time how the data changes. We have learned the i4 doesn’t mind heat at all. Increased efficiency, BMS reported capacity, etc. The more people report the better idea we will have.

Not really. If the data changes in the summer it tells us the data isn’t reliable. Capacity doesn’t change with the temperature so right there we have a huge red flag. If the argument is the data is just telling us what the BMS “thinks” capacity is that’s equally useless. This is snake oil until proven otherwise.

 

[cruzer666]

Not really. If the data changes in the summer it tells us the data isn’t reliable. Capacity doesn’t change with the temperature so right there we have a huge red flag. If the argument is the data is just telling us what the BMS “thinks” capacity is that’s equally useless. This is snake oil until proven otherwise.

I’m not selling snake oil here. From the MY22/23 BMW i4 warranty booklet:
“Battery performance and durability, including high‑voltage lithium‑ion batteries, is temperature‑dependent. While battery capacity increases in higher temperatures, colder temperatures will lower the battery’s capacity.”

You can do your own research, but temperature absolutely, without any reasonable doubt, affects the capacity of most batteries, not just high voltage lithium-ion batteries.

 

[enorl76]

Except evidence shows that calendar aging is the most likely culprit and charging to 100 may or may not really matter. There’s a lot of data in this stuff with Tesla. The biggest factors are calendar aging and likely storing the car at higher SOCs.

Yeah I really dont think charging to 100% matters as long as your not leaving it sit at 100-97% for a month.

Realistically I bet even charging to 90% doesnt matter to the battery, just the time involved to get from 80% SoC to 90% SoC

And TBH i dont think DCFC vs "slow" level2 / level1 charging actually matters either... manfacturers wouldnt be creating 200kW charging if it damages the battery in any significant way.

The electrons theater seating analogy works the best here (assuming regular temperatures) and I'd bet its the most realistic to whats actually going on inside the battery. When you have lots of packs, electricity just evenly splits between them all... so 5 battery packs actually charge at 40kW when 200kW is going in.

 

[enorl76]

Yes, I charge to 100% for that journey, but now I'm considering perhaps charging to just 95% to see if that makes a difference. I'm over 22k miles, so have a lot to go off. 408 charges, 91 full charges.

TBH i bet the main degradation has already occurred. Most of the degradation is probably just first year usage... not charging to 100%.

I'd assert you'd have worse degradation emptying down below 0% SoC and DCFC it to 100% several times a week... I doubt thats great for the battery chemistry.

 

[bognar67]

I think I might be winning? Or losing?

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At this milage it is not very bad. These cars arrive relatively fast to/around 90% and will nicely hold it for the following years and 10 thousand miles. At least this is what we learnt. That would be a surprise being on higher SoH per milage. My Taycan clocked 30k km in 1,5 years (has the biggest almost 10kWh buffer on the market) but still at 92% SoH and taking to the average it is good. So do not worry degradation will almost disappear from now on.

 

[Clerkpalmer]

I’m not selling snake oil here. From the MY22/23 BMW i4 warranty booklet:
“Battery performance and durability, including high‑voltage lithium‑ion batteries, is temperature‑dependent. While battery capacity increases in higher temperatures, colder temperatures will lower the battery’s capacity.”

You can do your own research, but temperature absolutely, without any reasonable doubt, affects the capacity of most batteries, not just high voltage lithium-ion batteries.

I’m not sure I understand how that’s possible. An 81 kwh pack that has degraded to 77kwh can never recover the degradation. It’s not possible. BMW is not using the word capacity the way I am.

 

[8853]

TBH i bet the main degradation has already occurred. Most of the degradation is probably just first year usage... not charging to 100%.

I'd assert you'd have worse degradation emptying down below 0% SoC and DCFC it to 100% several times a week... I doubt thats great for the battery chemistry.

The 10 or so years of independent research on Tesla battery packs (apples to apples) would agree with this statement