[kipsate]

Except in 2023, it’s irrelevant if the processor comes from Qualcomm or Intel for a UX.

SW development has used abstraction layers for a long time. BMW doesn’t develop the OS. That’s Linux, right? The processor manufacturer provides a support package with all custom drivers for their proprietary HW components, possibly the compiler (the lowest level tool chain and that’s often GNU based) and BMW’s code sits on top of APIs that abstract all of that.

So while it is probably more than just a hands off recompile, the engineering effort, if BMW’s SW engineers are at least a bit competent, is tiny. If BMW doesn’t do this then it’s not because of technological limits.

Yeah, that’s the deal with small projects and simple supplier relationships.

In real life and when it comes to these type of automotive projects there’s way more to it that you could imagine.

Suddenly part of the software written by a Tier1 is dependent on a manufacturers library which covers and grants 5 to 10 patents. You switch to another chip vendor and you realize you cannot reuse any of that without a 1-2 years development time. And if you add any type of ASIL requirements that the new manufacturer does not provide, you’re done and there’s no business case anymore

 

[Fabio]

Thanks for the explanation.

That’s not the case with BMW.

iDrive 8.5 and 9 seem a minor evolution compared to iDrive 8. Tesla has been doing way more dramatic changes in the last few years not only limited to rearranging the UI. The commonly introduce new features and recently introduced parking distance calculation based on Tesla Vision (which doesn’t seem to work anywhere as well as ultra sonic sensors).

 

[kipsate]

Thanks for the explanation.



iDrive 8.5 and 9 seem a minor evolution compared to iDrive 8. Tesla has been doing way more dramatic changes in the last few years not only limited to rearranging the UI. The commonly introduce new features and recently introduced parking distance calculation based on Tesla Vision (which doesn’t seem to work anywhere as well as ultra sonic sensors).

What is relevant from a type approval perspective might not be for the consumer and vice versa.

The real questions are: have your safety or security mechanisms changed ? Is your update introducing new significant risks for the driver or road users ? Is the vehicle architecture changed significatively in a way that previously identified risks are not valid anymore ?

Those are usually the factors taken into account.

UI changes or a better or worse parking performance are irrelevant.

 

[TheMaxXHD]

iDrive 9 is a different beast than iDrive 8.5. iDrive 9 is built off of Android Automotive OS meanwhile iDrive 8.5 is built off of Linux, just like iDrive 8. The purpose of iDrive 8.5 is to bring the Linux version more in line with iDrive 9 UX wise. It won’t be a 1 to 1 copy though, and I’d expect iDrive 9 to be a new headunit or atleast a significant change in architecture otherwise. An upgrade to iDrive 8.5 however should be more or less possible on every single MGU21 car, as they already pledged on many vehicles. If they can do it for one, they can do it for all, regulations have nothing to do with it then.

The only thing that matters at that point is whether they want to go through the trouble of supporting the upgrade, which takes time and resources to code and test the upgrade to all of them. The question becomes, will they actually do it, and when? Also, the 3 series was notably absent from the iDrive 8.5 upgrade announcement.

 

[Fabio]

I agree with you and that is why the discussion about legal approvals seems moot to me. iDrive 8 already went through all of this. And there is no need to “back-port” 8.5 which is just a minor update built on top of 8. Also Tesla as well changed hardware over time. So still this thread fails to explain why it is so easy for them release all these updates with new features while it would be so hard for BMW.

The only thing that matters at that point is whether they want to go through the trouble of supporting the upgrade, which takes time and resources to code and test the upgrade to all of them.

Little time in this case though… iDrive 8.5 is clearly a minor evolution of iDrive 8 built for the same software environment.

 

[NCe40]

(2) BMW iDrive 9 - Exclusive DEMO - YouTube

The comments are spot on with what I've been thinking:

"...The idea that the customer has to buy cars with no support or upgrade paths even on brand new models like the iX, i7 and soon to be i5 will be stuck with obsolete software before its lunched thanks to BMWs moronic handling of software updates.

"Honestly? I hate it. I mean, I dont hate it as is but I hate the idea. There are models, that still dont even have Idrive 8. x3 for example, and now ppl wait with ordering x3 because they dont want to have brand new car - and 2 months after receiveing it someone gets inside and say "oh, you have that old one?" O_O"

This mostly (along with some other issues) makes me feel that this will be my first and last BMW.

 

[DNichter]

Of course they could support 8.5 and 9 on older hardware, they are just choosing not to put in development time to make it work.

 

[dspevack]

One thing that I see that I like, is that they moved the blower control to the front screen for direct access. Now you have to go to climate control, then choose your blower speed.

 

[Fayt349]

One thing that I see that I like, is that they moved the blower control to the front screen for direct access. Now you have to go to climate control, then choose your blower speed.

This is easily changeable for iDrive 8, they don't even need to give us iD9. Just put an update for 8 that resolves this.

This is what I want from software side. Either that or give us apple carplay 2 so apple can just handle all of it.

 

[Fabio]

This mostly (along with some other issues) makes me feel that this will be my first and last BMW.

I will still consider BMW, because the car to me feels like a spaceship compared to anything else out there. If they would fix their software act likely there will be no consideration at all 🤣

 

[BMWdav]

If they won’t even give us the iDrive 8.5 for already made cars I probably won’t be getting another BMW at least. I don’t want to give my money to a company that isn’t supporting their products over a longer time. Not getting updates like that also depreciates the car faster so the cost comparisons with other cars becomes worse.

 

[Techwhiz1]

But... the 8.5 just doesn't look so different that it couldn't be supported on the current i4 hardware... what am I missing here?

Looking different and being different are two different things.

An one person said Linux is Linux. That is, until it isn't.

Try going from CentOS 6 to CentOS 7 with a complex project and tell me it's not a lot of work.

Assuming that the version of the RTOS is different from a different vendor, then you can assume some level of development that is non trivial.

2023 M50 - Tanzanite over tartufo full individual leather, 20" wheels, fully loaded.

 

[kipsate]

If they won’t even give us the iDrive 8.5 for already made cars I probably won’t be getting another BMW at least. I don’t want to give my money to a company that isn’t supporting their products over a longer time. Not getting updates like that also depreciates the car faster so the cost comparisons with other cars becomes worse.

Their software will be probably supported for more than 10-15 years. But the changes in the HeadUnit platform are not trivial.

 

[A_Camera]

If they won’t even give us the iDrive 8.5 for already made cars I probably won’t be getting another BMW at least. I don’t want to give my money to a company that isn’t supporting their products over a longer time. Not getting updates like that also depreciates the car faster so the cost comparisons with other cars becomes worse.

As long as they fix errors I am happy. I couldn't care less about new features I don't need just because the next person have it. Also, in this thread and all forums in general, there are a lot of amateurs not having a clue about the relationship between hardware and software / firmware and all they see is the HMI but have no idea about what's behind. A bunch of people who might at best have done some app programming for an iPhone or Android, or dis some simple, basic programming as hobby and they believe they know all about programming and simple and easy it is... 😅 They also have no clue about car manufacturing, type approval, safety and a lot of other things...

...and if you worry about second hand prices then you should not buy cars or any other consumer objects. Of course, when you sell your car it will NOT be a new car and the buyer should not expect a new car. If the buyer wants a new car then he / she should pay the full price for a new car. The software version of your car won't change the value of it.

 

[A_Camera]

Their software will be probably supported for more than 10-15 years. But the changes in the HeadUnit platform are not trivial.

Exactly. In fact, I am pretty sure that my 330e which is 3.5 years old, does not have the same iDrive 7 as the last one sold with the same display. Does it matter to me? No it doesn't. My car works well and as far as I know, all problems are fixed.

 

[bdh1119]

iDrive 8.5 coming to certain U.S. models this July

Starting from July production, BMW iDrive 8.5 will be implemented in the following BMW models: iX, i4, and 7 Series

www.bmwblog.com

 

[Wrecks]

Their software will be probably supported for more than 10-15 years. But the changes in the HeadUnit platform are not trivial.

The problem here is that literally the I4 and IX were the first cars to be released with this new headunit configuration after years of having the older style across the entire lineup. To roll out a brand new infotainment system and then immediately exclude vehicles with it from the SAME MODEL YEAR that have functionally the same set of hardware is a kick in the pants to people who faithfully purchased the car sight unseen and waited to get on what was supposed to be their next generation platform - infotainment system included.

EVs are as much about software and technology as they are about driving, so it's generally expected that you're using modern techniques and maintaining the status quo as far as software updates and longevity are concerned. Gone are the days of "you get what you get". We expect agile development and regular software releases from all of our other technology.

It shows incredibly poor planning, design and judgement on the part of BMW that they released a new "state of the art" hardware platform to be used across their entire lineup and then changed the components so significantly that within just a few months they cannot do ongoing feature support for it.

 

[BMWdav]

The problem here is that literally the I4 and IX were the first cars to be released with this new headunit configuration after years of having the older style across the entire lineup. To roll out a brand new infotainment system and then immediately exclude vehicles with it from the SAME MODEL YEAR that have functionally the same set of hardware is a kick in the pants to people who faithfully purchased the car sight unseen and waited to get on what was supposed to be their next generation platform - infotainment system included.

EVs are as much about software and technology as they are about driving, so it's generally expected that you're using modern techniques and maintaining the status quo as far as software updates and longevity are concerned. Gone are the days of "you get what you get". We expect agile development and regular software releases from all of our other technology.

It shows incredibly poor planning, design and judgement on the part of BMW that they released a new "state of the art" hardware platform to be used across their entire lineup and then changed the components so significantly that within just a few months they cannot do ongoing feature support for it.

Yeah I have a few friends that instatly got turned off when I’ve told them about how BMW seems to be handling both things like the manual preheating buttons as well as updates in general. Might be a generational question but they want a modern approach to software if they are shelling up premium money for an EV.