[Elle BMW]

Speaking of which, you promised you were coming to South Florida???

I did, didn't I. That was supposed to be in October, but I got sidetracked.....went on a cruise leaving from Texas so had a change in plans. I'll get there one day soon!!!!

 

[Elle BMW]

So I went back and looked at a Comparison I did a while back showing which of my three cars would I use for a theoretical 1,000 mile road trip. I updated using todays average rates for Electricity at an EA Station as a non-member + (not everyone gets free charging for 2 years), gasoline and diesel. My cars are the I4 e40, the 328d and the X5. For comparison I assumed all electricity would be paid for at an EA station, realizing I would most likely pre-charge my vehicle at home, and who knows what if any free charges I might find along the way, so bear with me in this little exercise.

Note I am using the true miles/kwh of my i4, not what the car says!

So the EV is smack in the middle between the three options, with the 328d being the most economical option even at $5.30/gal for diesel.

Obviously this comparison fails to consider cost to operate (maintenance).

But consider the fuel costs here and the number of stops to reach 1,000 miles and which vehicle would you prefer to make your road trip in?


View attachment 18863

Damn electricity is expensive down there....and gas is super cheap!! up here I think the i4 would win out hands down, but there are no charging stations 🤣 🤣

 

[niam]

How much loss on efficiency is expected in the cold? with my M50 I am getting pretty low numbers. I know a lot of that is from playing around with it but today on my 20 mile commute to work I was only getting like 2.9 miles/kwh even thought the average speed was 40mph. That being said it was like 26F/ -3C so I am sure that hurts a lot

@hubbl3 It’s not only the effect of cold weather. If you drive short distances, stop a lot on traffic lights and stay in queues in the city, the initial power with every acceleration is higher than if you drive continuously.
I enclose some samples which shows you the consumed power…

city Moderate traffic. city low traffic. Highway with traffic and city
Lot of traffic lights. Lot of traffic lights. Some traffic light to the highway and in the destination city

Temperature in this days 13 to 16 degrees C. No rain.

 

[Flyingman]

Damn electricity is expensive down there....and gas is super cheap!! up here I think the i4 would win out hands down, but there are no charging stations 🤣 🤣

To be clear that ($0.43/kwh) is the rate EA charges guests. We (BMW i4 owners) of course get 30 min free sessions and then if you join you pay $0.31/kwh. Some states are still on a price per minute which doesn't really help me know how much my cost will be. Charge rate can vary quite a bit from start to finish depending on SOC to begin with.

For sure the greatest deal is charging at home with free solar if you have it!

 

[ssh]

So I went back and looked at a Comparison I did a while back showing which of my three cars would I use for a theoretical 1,000 mile road trip. I updated using todays average rates for Electricity at an EA Station as a non-member + (not everyone gets free charging for 2 years), gasoline and diesel. My cars are the I4 e40, the 328d and the X5. For comparison I assumed all electricity would be paid for at an EA station, realizing I would most likely pre-charge my vehicle at home, and who knows what if any free charges I might find along the way, so bear with me in this little exercise.

Note I am using the true miles/kwh of my i4, not what the car says!

So the EV is smack in the middle between the three options, with the 328d being the most economical option even at $5.30/gal for diesel.

Obviously this comparison fails to consider cost to operate (maintenance).

But consider the fuel costs here and the number of stops to reach 1,000 miles and which vehicle would you prefer to make your road trip in?


View attachment 18863

The i4, hands down. Quiet, virtually maintenance free, comfortable, and much more effective on the drive when the idiots start to pile up in the left lane...

 

[potterjd]

Quoted the manual above. Further:

Starting page 117: Energy-saving driving and maximizing the range

Then page 124: Strength of recuperative braking In selector lever position B, the energy recovery is high and the deceleration is strong. For driving in selector lever position D, the strength of recuperative braking can be adjusted via iDrive. ▷ Depending on the equipment adaptive energy recovery: energy recovery and decel-eration are automatically adapted to the respective driving situation. Adaptive recuperation, recuperative braking, refer to page 279. ▷ High energy recovery: the vehicle deceler-ates fast, more energy is returned to the high-voltage battery. ▷ Average energy recovery. ▷ Low energy recovery: the vehicle deceler-ates more slowly, less energy is returned to the high-voltage battery.

Note that the High/Med/Low is for regen in D mode; using the brake pedal in D mode creates regen until the brake pedal force exceeds what’s possible from regen and then it engages the physical brake pads/rotors.

I would love to take advantage of this advice. However, my owner's manual does not match the page numbers referenced here. Just took delivery of a 2023 i4 eDrive40 on November, 23, 2022.

I don't understand the term "adaptive recuperation" since I am required to select settings (drive mode, degree of recuperation.)

Others have mentioned "coasting." However, the BMW definition of coasting is quite different from my nearly eight years of experience with a Volkswagen e-Golf. I love the fact that I can coast as if I were in Neutral and dynamically engage recuperation at one of three levels. I now realize that BMW does not offer that level of control and that I need to learn to manage recuperation solely by the subtle change in pressure on the accelerator. I hope that the result of learning this new skill will be driving range that is close to the rating for the vehicle.

 

[ssh]

I would love to take advantage of this advice. However, my owner's manual does not match the page numbers referenced here. Just took delivery of a 2023 i4 eDrive40 on November, 23, 2022.

I don't understand the term "adaptive recuperation" since I am required to select settings (drive mode, degree of recuperation.)

Others have mentioned "coasting." However, the BMW definition of coasting is quite different from my nearly eight years of experience with a Volkswagen e-Golf. I love the fact that I can coast as if I were in Neutral and dynamically engage recuperation at one of three levels. I now realize that BMW does not offer that level of control and that I need to learn to manage recuperation solely by the subtle change in pressure on the accelerator. I hope that the result of learning this new skill will be driving range that is close to the rating for the vehicle.

Sorry, but no, this is inaccurate.

You may not have Adaptive recuperation in your car, since it requires the DAPP hardware.

If you have Adaptive on your car and set it, you will 100% coast with no feet on any pedal. It will even start to slow by recuperation as you approach traffic even if you don't touch the brake. In addition, pressing the brake engages recuperative braking first and only goes to the pads when you exceed what the recuperative braking can do.

The section in the manual you want is called, "Driving in Detail: eDRIVE".

 

[potterjd]

Sorry, but no, this is inaccurate.

You may not have Adaptive recuperation in your car, since it requires the DAPP hardware.

If you have Adaptive on your car and set it, you will 100% coast with no feet on any pedal. It will even start to slow by recuperation as you approach traffic even if you don't touch the brake. In addition, pressing the brake engages recuperative braking first and only goes to the pads when you exceed what the recuperative braking can do.

The section in the manual you want is called, "Driving in Detail: eDRIVE".

Sorry. Didn't mean to say something that was inaccurate. I appreciate your insight. I wish I had been informed about DAPP (assume that is Driving Assistance Professional Package) functionality. Sadly, I had a very poor order & sales experience. You have highlighted another reason why, I believe, the salesman had no experience with the product and probably wasn't encouraged to learn about the options in detail. I'm on my own, I guess.

 

[ssh]

Sorry. Didn't mean to say something that was inaccurate. I appreciate your insight. I wish I had been informed about DAPP (assume that is Driving Assistance Professional Package) functionality. Sadly, I had a very poor order & sales experience. You have highlighted another reason why, I believe, the salesman had no experience with the product and probably wasn't encouraged to learn about the options in detail. I'm on my own, I guess.

Bummer... I get that. We're here to help, though, and this is a great community!

So... if you don't have DAPP (and you're right about what it is!), you can't do Adaptive recuperation and you won't see that option. As a result, the closest you'll get to coasting is, as you note, choose a pedal angle which is effectively coasting. It'll obviously be easiest at low recuperation.

 

[Flyingman]

One foot driving (should I say one pedal), is they way to go. It has totally changed the way I drive and whenever I get back into one of my ICE I have to quickly retrain my brain. I forget to put my foot on the brake and wonder why that dam car wont slow down quicker!

 

[ssh]

One foot driving (should I say one pedal), is they way to go. It has totally changed the way I drive and whenever I get back into one of my ICE I have to quickly retrain my brain. I forget to put my foot on the brake and wonder why that dam car wont slow down quicker!

Yeah... I still haven't spent much time in B. I haven't liked it at all when I've tried it. It feels like I always have to be applying pressure to the pedal, which I prefer not to do. I'll keep trying it around town, but I really like Adaptive in D. Have I mentioned I like Adaptive?

 

[Flyingman]

Yeah... I still haven't spent much time in B. I haven't liked it at all when I've tried it. It feels like I always have to be applying pressure to the pedal, which I prefer not to do. I'll keep trying it around town, but I really like Adaptive in D. Have I mentioned I like Adaptive?

I'll give that a try. Sometimes I forget to put in B and come screaming to a halt at a stop sign while I fumble for the brake or shift into B.

 

[potterjd]

Bummer... I get that. We're here to help, though, and this is a great community!

So... if you don't have DAPP (and you're right about what it is!), you can't do Adaptive recuperation and you won't see that option. As a result, the closest you'll get to coasting is, as you note, choose a pedal angle which is effectively coasting. It'll obviously be easiest at low recuperation.

I did not order DAPP for my 2023 i4 eDrive40 and I am now quite disappointed to learn that the Adaptive Recuperation was only included with the purchased option. There is no mention of Adaptive Recuperation on the BMW USA website in the "build" secion under the DAPP option.

ls possible to retrofit my car with whatever hardware / software is necessary to enable Adaptive Recuperation? I read elsewhere that an additional sensor is needed, but wondering how much of the functionality is embeded in the software?

 

[Flyingman]

EVs Explained: Charging Losses

When adding energy to an EV's battery pack, more is expended than what makes it into the pack. How much varies considerably depending on the electrical output and ambient conditions.

www.caranddriver.com

Actually could be 13% or so! Wow, I really hadn't thought of that but certainly understand it takes power to get those kwh shoved back into those tiny batteries!

So, it would appear that the Auto Manufacturers are using kwh extracted from the battery vs what it takes it to get it in there!

Imagine losing some 10-15% of your gasoline when you filled your car. Evaporation!

So now I need to adjust my data accordingly. KWh measured going into my car are not the number of kwh actually consumed in going down the road. So this is really just yet another parasitic load on the EV Green Train.

So the GOM in my case, which is on based 3.0 miles/kwh using kwh used to charge the vehicle, needs to be adjusted for this loss to better estimate what my range will be.

Therefore it should be more like 3.4 miles/kwh, just as shown by the car!

This is like fuzzy math, but yet another finer point of EV ownership people need to know and understand.

So more like a range of 275 miles for full charge. Pretty much as "advertised".

Thanks @yobro 24!

Folks,

A brief update on this miles/kwh discussion. Now that I have some 27 Charges of which all but (4) are at home, comparing my BMW App vs my Wallbox for kwhs charged, the Wallbox is actually showing about 3% less kwhs than what the BMW app shows. Previously I was indicating the opposite but I was incorrect. The BMW App is apparently very approximate and I trust the Wallbox to be more accurate as to how many kwhs are being delivered to the vehicle.

Meanwhile my miles/kwh remains very solid at 3.0 miles/kwh using the BMW App data, but my onboard computer says it is 3.4. The delta of course is the losses caused by charging. 3.4 miles/kwh is fine for predicting range on a battery charge while the 3.0 miles/kwh is more in line for calculating how many kwhs you will need to buy or use.

To be fair my highway driving is usually in the 80+mph range which does not help with efficiency.

 

[LowOnCash]

Range issue: I got my BMW i4 edrive40 2 weeks back I am getting very less range as expected.
Update on this: I followed the instructions posted on this site (i.e. I drove at 45 miles/hr on eco mode with B gears On ) Now my range is showing in 280sh range. I also checked the BMW official web site that 19" wheel which my car has, gives range of 282 mi.

View attachment 13885

Hello what instructions are you referring to?

Can you put up a link where you read to drive in ECO mode at 45 mph

Thanks Mike

 

[fg78nc]

I have eDrive 40 with DAPP and my driving style is moderate.
Max I saw so far is 205 miles at 80% state of charger.
My average is 180 miles for 80%.
My take on this is just don’t worry and be happy.
Range is enough for a daily driving and for long trips it is enough it drive for 3 hours and then take a break.

 

[ssh]

View attachment 22314
I have eDrive 40 with DAPP and my driving style is moderate.
Max I saw so far is 205 miles at 80% state of charger.
My average is 180 miles for 80%.
My take on this is just don’t worry and be happy.
Range is enough for a daily driving and for long trips it is enough it drive for 3 hours and then take a break.

Once again, range is meaningless! Or at the very least, potentially misleading. Please review Recommendations to understand Range and Consumption

 

[Sparky]

I did not order DAPP for my 2023 i4 eDrive40 and I am now quite disappointed to learn that the Adaptive Recuperation was only included with the purchased option. There is no mention of Adaptive Recuperation on the BMW USA website in the "build" secion under the DAPP option.

ls possible to retrofit my car with whatever hardware / software is necessary to enable Adaptive Recuperation? I read elsewhere that an additional sensor is needed, but wondering how much of the functionality is embeded in the software?

If only BMW would start including all the hardware necessary for everything as standard and let us subscribe to the features we want to use .

I wouldn't hold your breath on a retrofit. If it means that much, cancel & reorder.

The non-DAPP cars (like mine) do still offer settings for recuperation; low, medium, or high. High is the same as B, but without one-pedal-driving full stop. Low feels like the same drag as I've experienced in owning automatic, 2.0T ICE BMW's when lifting off the gas pedal. Close to coasting, and light enough that you will gain speed on a moderate downhill, but not quite as free-wheeling as true neutral.

 

[LowOnCash]

Great thread Guys - It appears as if we have two choices to reduce our losses in charging and driving, which is to trade our I4's for an EV6 or just deal with our existing I4 the way she is!

Since the EV6 has an 800 volt system it has 50% less losses when charging and discharging.
If you compare an 800 volt to a 400 volt system, 800 volts with the same exact loads will develop 50% less current and amps to transfer the same power.

400 volt EVs develop excess heat to charge and power the car. It takes brute power to heat the batteries, cables, chargers, inverters, etc. all at the expense of the batteries capacity. Aside from just a heat factor 800 volt inverter and motor operates more efficiently to offer more range.

800 volts is the future of all EVs, except someone needs to tell BMW that.

In any case, I own both cars and would not trade either for another EV even above its price range. I love my i4 exactly the way she is. When it comes to electic cars, I found it’s best not to over analyze the cost of driving or range, just enjoy the tech.

Regards Mike

 

[i4m50Norway]

Nice cars.


According to this not a very big difference :

BMW i4 eDrive40

All details and specs of the BMW i4 eDrive40 (2021-2024). Compare price, lease, real-world range and consumption of every electric vehicle.

ev-database.org

Nominal Voltage 399 V

2022 Kia EV6 US Specs Compared: Battery, Range, Price And More

About two weeks ago, Kia officially announced US pricing of the Kia EV6 model, which is available in several versions.

insideevs.com

Its 58.0 kWh battery translated into an EPA range of 232 miles (373 km). According to the manufacturer, the pack has a nominal voltage of 522.7

When switching to the Wind trim (at a cost of $6,100), in the RWD version, the battery capacity increases by a third to 77.4 kWh. The EPA range increases accordingly to 310 miles (499 km). The bigger battery has a nominal voltage of 697
-------------------------
Biggest issue with 800Volt cars today is that most HPC chargers is 400 Volt - so car must convert resulting in high losses.

BMW says Neue Klasse will use 800 Volt.

New HPC chargers support both 400 Volt and 800 Volt - but so far (at least in Europe) not very common,