I'm (hopefully) not anywhere near the need to have the battery replaced on my 2023 i4, but has anyone done so, and if so, how expensive was it to replace the battery?
zoomiq
I watched a very interesting YT video on this yesterday.
The gist was this:
-Batteries last Way longer than ppl think, and are totally useable even when down to 75% capacity 8 yrs later.
-Not many batteries have been replaced overall.
-Repairing the cells or modules is far more cost effective, and businesses are beginning to emerge that do this.
-Total replacements are really only done by manufacturers/dealers vs repairing, because they need to be able to 1- warranty the new battery & 2- they need to centralize the skilled team that does repair/refurbish the old battery that got replaced.
-And finally, the popular notion that batteries need to be replaced often and it is super expensive is based on the few that dealers have had to do - but that is not the only solution available.
Very interesting, check it out:
The gist was this:
-Batteries last Way longer than ppl think, and are totally useable even when down to 75% capacity 8 yrs later.
-Not many batteries have been replaced overall.
-Repairing the cells or modules is far more cost effective, and businesses are beginning to emerge that do this.
-Total replacements are really only done by manufacturers/dealers vs repairing, because they need to be able to 1- warranty the new battery & 2- they need to centralize the skilled team that does repair/refurbish the old battery that got replaced.
-And finally, the popular notion that batteries need to be replaced often and it is super expensive is based on the few that dealers have had to do - but that is not the only solution available.
Very interesting, check it out:
Nothing documented yet for the i4 but expect it to be very, very expensive. The battery kit part alone is listed as $35k, add labor and other stuff like coolant flush/consumables and you'll be well over $40k for the full replacement.
However, because its so new there maybe new procedures developed to replace problematic sections or cell assemblies instead of the whole thing, which I think is going to be a lot less but still low 5 figures.
However, because its so new there maybe new procedures developed to replace problematic sections or cell assemblies instead of the whole thing, which I think is going to be a lot less but still low 5 figures.
Wow! So it presents a real problem as you approach owning an EV for about 5 years. Since the warranty is only 8 years or 80,000 miles, what to do in year 4 - sell it at a presumably huge discount, or keep it and possibly be faced with a $40,000 bill to replace the battery in years 9 or 10? This is why the EV market has slowed - the battery replacement issue.
It remains to be seen how dramatic the cost will truly be to replace a battery.
Also, if the battery is still keeping say 80% of the original capacity, why would you replace it at year 9 or 10? You would only need to adjust your range expectations as part of wear and tear. IMO, I would only replace the battery if it were maybe 25% of the original stated capacity due to degradation but that could take 15 to 20 yrs and by then, who cares
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Also, if the battery is still keeping say 80% of the original capacity, why would you replace it at year 9 or 10? You would only need to adjust your range expectations as part of wear and tear. IMO, I would only replace the battery if it were maybe 25% of the original stated capacity due to degradation but that could take 15 to 20 yrs and by then, who cares
.No, the EV market has not slowed down globally. While it has decelerated in some countries, it has gained momentum in others. Overall, the market continues to grow.
The regions where the market has slowed down have unique characteristics. Some have reduced incentives for purchasing EVs, while others face challenges with charging infrastructure. Additionally, lobbying and populist climate crisis denial are quite widespread, leading to anger and resentment towards EVs. Although I am uncertain about the exact impact on sales, it likely affects some countries.
Many factors are at play. However, I do not believe that concerns about battery lifespan have any significant impact.
The regions where the market has slowed down have unique characteristics. Some have reduced incentives for purchasing EVs, while others face challenges with charging infrastructure. Additionally, lobbying and populist climate crisis denial are quite widespread, leading to anger and resentment towards EVs. Although I am uncertain about the exact impact on sales, it likely affects some countries.
Many factors are at play. However, I do not believe that concerns about battery lifespan have any significant impact.
While it's under warranty, the manufacturer will generally provide a complete replacement (with a huge dollar value attached on paper to make it look like as good a value for you as possible), and then take the old one back to look at and rebuild or recycle.
When you think about battery replacements, think of them in the same terms as engine replacements in ICE cars. Once cars are out of warranty and getting older, if the engine fails, most people do not go buy a brand new engine from the manufacturer and swap it in. Most people will get a used engine, or a rebuilt engine, or maybe have somebody repair and rebuild the engine they already have.
There are already third-party companies out there doing that for batteries, especially in places where there are a lot of EVs on the road.
When you think about battery replacements, think of them in the same terms as engine replacements in ICE cars. Once cars are out of warranty and getting older, if the engine fails, most people do not go buy a brand new engine from the manufacturer and swap it in. Most people will get a used engine, or a rebuilt engine, or maybe have somebody repair and rebuild the engine they already have.
There are already third-party companies out there doing that for batteries, especially in places where there are a lot of EVs on the road.
The rest of the car's warranty is only 3 years, does that mean a real problem as you approach owning a car for 2 years? Of course not.
A battery is not suddenly going to expire at 8 years and a day because the warranty ran out. Yes, a catastrophic battery failure in an 8 year old car would make the car valueless but that is not going to be common scenario. Yes, there will be battery degradation but looking at Tesla data, I suspect most i4s will still have over 80% capacity at 10 years. I hope so, because my intention is to keep mine for at least that long.
Search the forum @zoomiq, there is so much information about this already posted here.
The replacement cost of the High voltage battery really only comes into play for insurance and accidents. As @Wunsch put it, very few consumers will ever buy a new battery.
Most of us have insurance which battery cost drives up insurance rates. Insurance rates are high because most body shops do not know how to repair batteries and are too worried about liability to try. So a lot of cars are totaled because they price a brand new battery. (at least in the US)
Most of us have insurance which battery cost drives up insurance rates. Insurance rates are high because most body shops do not know how to repair batteries and are too worried about liability to try. So a lot of cars are totaled because they price a brand new battery. (at least in the US)
Who knows, maybe in 10 years, when your battery will be worn, you might be able to purchase a solid state battery for cheap which might even increase your range.
10 years will bring us in 2034 where all Europe will be exclusively driving electric vehicles as per law.
10 years will bring us in 2034 where all Europe will be exclusively driving electric vehicles as per law
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Actually, in EU it is only two years, but you can buy 3 extra years and get a total of 5 years warranty on the car, which I did.
Of course, if the battery would suddenly totally die at 8 years - 1 day then it's still fine for me, but 8 years +1 day is a disaster. Make sure you are driving on the last day of the warranty, just to make a final test. Of course, it can still give in the next day...
there is no way to know, but just like you say, it is not very likely that it will happen. Degradation is one thing, total failure is another which I am not worrying about.I believe Tesla long term data on Model S indicates 1000-1500 “full” recharge cycles while still maintaining minimum target capacity (I think that may be 70%). With newer battery technology in the i4 we would potentially see closer to the top end of this cycle range, so let’s say 1300 cycles. With the i4 e40 rated at 300 miles we should be good for almost 400,000 miles for most owners. At that point the car would be End of Life.
Viewed another way, for the battery to be “spent” at the mythical 8yr mark one would need to be driving 50k miles per year.
Viewed another way, for the battery to be “spent” at the mythical 8yr mark one would need to be driving 50k miles per year.
USA Federal law mandates that manufacturers offer at least eight years or 100,000 miles of EV battery warranty coverage. BMW is only offering the minimum warranty by law. They are not confident enough to give a longer warranty than required by law.
How long the battery actually last is unknown. Very few old Tesla on the road. The average car on US roads is 12.6 years. Only the Tesla Roadster is that old and a lot of them have had battery replacements. I don't think comparing I4 to Tesla Model S provides any indication of life. Tesla cars have very good thermal management. I often walk by Tesla's in parking lots in summer heat and they have the fans running cooling the battery. My BMW i4, I don't believe has any thermal management when the car is off. When I turn off my car and lock it, it is quiet. Manual just states don't park in direct sun. Most cars are parked in direct sun all day in a parking lot at work. Maybe BMW's batteries are better and don't need as much thermal management. Historically BMW and other luxury brands are not the longest most reliable vehicles on the road. Most likely the parts in the cooling system and other things will fail way before the battery or the motor need to be replaced.
Most gas cars are sent to the junkyard when the paint starts failing and it starts burning oil. Fixing burning oil is usually a $50 piston ring. Not super expensive, but a few thousands in labor. A lot of cars and engine swap is easy too but 3-4 thousand. EVs are unlikely to last or change how long cars are on the road. When the car gets old, paint will fail, an inverter or other part will go out, $2-3K and the owner is ready for a different car. Battery vs engine doesn't matter. It's the cost to repair everything in the car that will go bad before the battery.
How long the battery actually last is unknown. Very few old Tesla on the road. The average car on US roads is 12.6 years. Only the Tesla Roadster is that old and a lot of them have had battery replacements. I don't think comparing I4 to Tesla Model S provides any indication of life. Tesla cars have very good thermal management. I often walk by Tesla's in parking lots in summer heat and they have the fans running cooling the battery. My BMW i4, I don't believe has any thermal management when the car is off. When I turn off my car and lock it, it is quiet. Manual just states don't park in direct sun. Most cars are parked in direct sun all day in a parking lot at work. Maybe BMW's batteries are better and don't need as much thermal management. Historically BMW and other luxury brands are not the longest most reliable vehicles on the road. Most likely the parts in the cooling system and other things will fail way before the battery or the motor need to be replaced.
Most gas cars are sent to the junkyard when the paint starts failing and it starts burning oil. Fixing burning oil is usually a $50 piston ring. Not super expensive, but a few thousands in labor. A lot of cars and engine swap is easy too but 3-4 thousand. EVs are unlikely to last or change how long cars are on the road. When the car gets old, paint will fail, an inverter or other part will go out, $2-3K and the owner is ready for a different car. Battery vs engine doesn't matter. It's the cost to repair everything in the car that will go bad before the battery.
We may have different definitions of very, few, or old. Perhaps all three?
Some 60% of the 2450 Tesla Roadsters that were built are still out there doing their thing, most of which are now in their teenage years. I actually saw one this spring and mentioned it on the forum.
Yes we do. My other car is a 15 year old car that feels like the day I drove it home with 8 miles on the odometer. Drive in any small town USA and you will see a lot of cars over 20 years old.
Tesla roadsters are now a collector car, so people are going to fix them up to try to keep them on the road. They were never a mainstream car. Model S and X are a little more mainstream and the model 3 definitely is. My dad drives a 56 year old car. A 1968 Jag XK-E Convertible, and there are hundreds of them still driving today. But nothing reliable about them back then or now. They are just cool cars that people are willing to put the money into to keep them on the road. For a daily driver like the Model 3 time will tell if they are reliable or not. I just think we have very little data. Almost 288 Million gas cars have been on the road for almost 100 years, so we have the infrastructure to diagnose and repair them at a reasonable cost if something goes wrong. The I4 we only really have the dealer. Which most owners are okay with since the majority are leased. (I own).
Tesla roadsters are now a collector car, so people are going to fix them up to try to keep them on the road. They were never a mainstream car. Model S and X are a little more mainstream and the model 3 definitely is. My dad drives a 56 year old car. A 1968 Jag XK-E Convertible, and there are hundreds of them still driving today. But nothing reliable about them back then or now. They are just cool cars that people are willing to put the money into to keep them on the road. For a daily driver like the Model 3 time will tell if they are reliable or not. I just think we have very little data. Almost 288 Million gas cars have been on the road for almost 100 years, so we have the infrastructure to diagnose and repair them at a reasonable cost if something goes wrong. The I4 we only really have the dealer. Which most owners are okay with since the majority are leased. (I own).
Good or bad is based on competition.
Tesla Model 3 Long range "8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period. "
Tesla was 80% for the longest time. BMW doesn't even state 70% on their website. I almost didn't buy the car because of this. I had multiple conversations with the "Genius" and they just said they test the battery to determine if it is good or not. No % is good or bad. So I asked if the car can go 50 miles on a charge. Is the battery good? Genius said they will have to make that determination when that comes up. So unless you live in Cali, it really is up to them.
A luxury brand should have a better warranty than average. I know there are outliers with Kia/Hyundai long warranties but most luxury brands warranty longer than most non-luxury brands.
I know it is unpopular to compare to the model 3, but when I bought in late 2022 it was the only real competition to the I4. Even today there are very few non-SUV EVs. I agree with @rollermonkey Tesla build quality is lower, but it is a much cheaper price point today for similar optioned vehicles.
Tesla Model 3 Long range "8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period. "
Tesla was 80% for the longest time. BMW doesn't even state 70% on their website. I almost didn't buy the car because of this. I had multiple conversations with the "Genius" and they just said they test the battery to determine if it is good or not. No % is good or bad. So I asked if the car can go 50 miles on a charge. Is the battery good? Genius said they will have to make that determination when that comes up. So unless you live in Cali, it really is up to them.
A luxury brand should have a better warranty than average. I know there are outliers with Kia/Hyundai long warranties but most luxury brands warranty longer than most non-luxury brands.
I know it is unpopular to compare to the model 3, but when I bought in late 2022 it was the only real competition to the I4. Even today there are very few non-SUV EVs. I agree with @rollermonkey Tesla build quality is lower, but it is a much cheaper price point today for similar optioned vehicles.
Also BMW Motor is only 4yrs/50K miles. Tesla Model 3 long range motor is 8yrs/120miles. More than 2x warranty...not nothing.
Unlimited Warranty to original owner only-> 100% agree gimmick.
Long but limited powertrain warranties that are 100% transferable => Provides confidence in buying the product. Shields users from unexpected repair costs. Japanese manufacturers have a history that they don't need a long warranty. I doubt Hyundai and Kia would even be in business if they didn't give long warranties the first few years. They don't need it now as much today. Same with EVs,, having a warranty reduces risk of the consumer and in return the consumer is more likely to buy an unknown life/reliability record..
100%. I've said this on many posts!
A lot of independent shops can easily fix heat pump and cooling issues. Especially EV Garage. Not really that different than the climate systems in gas cars. They are a little more complicated with valves and how they interact, but 90% the same. I also think things like the HV to 12V LV converters and battery chargers are easy for mechanics to fix/swap out. On the I4 we have to worry about motor brushes which are unknown, but a mechanic should be able to swap them, but unlikely will want to mess. Main components I worry about are anything to do with the dash and inverters. Issues that require special tools to diagnose and are less obvious what is wrong. These will probably be a dealer only for a long time because they are really custom to BMW
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2nd hand battery for i4 - NOK 220000 is USD 22000
finndel.no
for i3 - USD 800 - 6250
Batteripakke elbil til BMW i4, 2021-->> (G26)(G26)
Batteripakke elbil til BMW i4, 2021-->> (G26)(G26) (61 27 8 863 448|61 27 8 863 438|), Motorkode: HA0002N0,HA0003N0, Girkode:
finndel.no
for i3 - USD 800 - 6250
I wonder how that works? There is a link to a dismantler. Battery is really hard to remove and transport. I'm not going to go to the junk yard with my socket set and get the battery. You really need the whole car for a day or two to put on a lift and have a real garage that has a lift. With a gas car anyone can remove an engine with a cheap lift engine lift in a residential garage, but a battery...I'd want a real commercial auto garage.
For most people there is no reason to change/move to EV. If you take environmental reasons and novelty out, it isn't that compelling. Expensive new tech that may save you money on most peoples 2nd largest purchase. There is a risk with anything new and a lot are just waiting it out. Outside of the luxury market and most people don't buy cars that often. I wanted a Tesla in 2014, but waited till 2022 to buy an EV.
It’s pretty compelling to not ever goto the gas station again, having your fueling station at home, for a car that costs a fraction to fuel. And for a daily, EV is a better option all the way around.
I don't think you will be allowed to unmount it yourself.
They will do it - when they have a buyer.
Another interesting think : all parts total price approx NOK 400000/USD 40000
Value as a 2nd hand car without damage now is approx NOK 600000/USD 60000
finndel.no
They will do it - when they have a buyer.
Another interesting think : all parts total price approx NOK 400000/USD 40000
Value as a 2nd hand car without damage now is approx NOK 600000/USD 60000
BMW i4, 2021->> (G26)(G26)
BMW i4, 2021->> (G26)(G26) delebil, Motorkode: HA0002N0,HA0003N0
finndel.no
This Country Leads The Way In EVs Sales By A Large Margin
Electric cars are gaining market share around the globe, but one country is seeing rapid growth, with all new vehicles going electric as soon as 2025.
www.topspeed.com
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