[bbgator]

reduced and exempted them from other taxes that polluting cars pay

In the USA a lot of states charge a $200+ road tax fee. So EV drivers pay the same or more tax as gas drivers. No reduction here.

The 2017 Right to charge to give apartment dwellers an opportunity to charge at home is a big one!

I also don't like any of the USA tax incentives either. $7,500 if you make less than $150K. That cap is nuts! Most EVs are expensive so people shouldn't be encouraged to buy a car that is 1/2 their salary. That also isn't a ton of money anymore. The people who make enough to buy an EV and are willing to take the risk are penalized with no incentives.

I love EVs, but it will be hard for me to buy another EV if these tax incentives are still there. I don't want to pay more than others just because I make slightly over a threshold. Good thing there is a lease loophole but I don't like leasing either. Making people lease to get the tax incentive is also dumb and causes the used car market to crash which then discourages people from buying EVs since they don't hold value. I wish we had better Politian's in both parties or actually ditch the party system.

 

[Electric Landshark]

For my idea: This can be done legally at the national level as easily as with a presidential executive order. Trump is good at using them. 🙂

 

[Electric Landshark]

In the USA a lot of states charge a $200+ road tax fee. So EV drivers pay the same or more tax as gas drivers. No reduction here.

The 2017 Right to charge to give apartment dwellers an opportunity to charge at home is a big one!

I also don't like any of the USA tax incentives either. $7,500 if you make less than $150K. That cap is nuts! Most EVs are expensive so people shouldn't be encouraged to buy a car that is 1/2 their salary. That also isn't a ton of money anymore. The people who make enough to buy an EV and are willing to take the risk are penalized with no incentives.

I love EVs, but it will be hard for me to buy another EV if these tax incentives are still there. I don't want to pay more than others just because I make slightly over a threshold. Good thing there is a lease loophole but I don't like leasing either. Making people lease to get the tax incentive is also dumb and causes the used car market to crash which then discourages people from buying EVs since they don't hold value. I wish we had better Politian's in both parties or actually ditch the party system.

Honestly, if diesel gate never happened I’d probably still be driving my American Made 2013 VW Passat TDI with 6 speed manual. And I’d probably have 300k miles on it by now. I had 115k on it when I sold it back to VW cause there was no “fix” for my model with manual transmission.
I was shooting the breeze with my son and told him that when he’s old enough to drive there will be cheap EVs for him, but he wants a gas car as he doesn’t want to be disadvantaged due to the current infrastructure…

 

[bbgator]

he doesn’t want to be disadvantaged due to the current infrastructure…

Just wow! Current infrastructure must be bad in your area. I would think an EV would be ideal for any teenager. Only issue is that they are fast and expensive. My SeaDoo has a teenager key that limits the power to 50%. I know some cars have similar feature.

Gas money was a big deal when I was a kid. Sucking parents electricity would have been ideal. Plus kids typically don't do road trips till they go off to college. College towns tend to have a lot of EV chargers and more green in general.

I don't push EVs. I love mine, but I'm sure they are the best solution for everyone. I'm not an environmentalist and not convinced they are really better until I see a lot of them with high miles and the batteries actually get recycled. Small gas car can still be economical, safe, and if you keep it long enough it can have only a minimal impact to the environment.

 

[Phillies8008]

For my idea: This can be done legally at the national level as easily as with a presidential executive order. Trump is good at using them. 🙂

It cannot. At least not with an Executive Order that won't be rejected by a Court. I know we're getting there, but we don't quite have a King yet.

I mean, you do realize that your idea of simply issuing an Executive Order means that the President of the United States can, at any time he/she desires, force any business in the nation to make any capital expenditure he/she desires. Are you sure you want that?

 

[Electric Landshark]

It’s been explained to you by Cruzer666 as to how it could be done at the state or local level of government and a presidential executive order is ONE way it can be done at the national level.

I vote in elections on what I can vote on. You talk of a “King”. In my opinion this government although labeled as a democracy, has been partial anarchy since the 1950s. How else can it be explained that some laws are upheld when others like the basic law of sovereignty etc. are not.
And again Corporations and lawyers technically do not run this country, even if you think otherwise.

And yes Global Climate Change is real and its effects are being felt MUCH sooner than scientists originally thought. The more time wasted switching over to EVs, means much worse consequences for all. We NEED a better EV Charging infrastructure as soon as possible.

 

[rollermonkey]

You spelled "oligarchy" incorrectly. There's no 'N' in it.

 

[bbgator]

yes Global Climate Change is real and its effects are being felt MUCH sooner than scientists originally thought. The more time wasted switching over to EVs, means much worse consequences for all. We NEED a better EV Charging infrastructure as soon as possible.

We are just wasting our time discussing the government forcing people to install chargers. New administration doesn't care about the environment. Drill baby drill. Well the new administration is heavily influenced by corporations. Look at who is being appointed! Elon does care but he cares about power more.

It has been shown many times the Republican appointed judges are loyalists and rule to help the party. Look at the DeSantis vs Disney or Trump investigations.

If you want chargers installed, it needs to be on the local level and it needs to be cheap enough that it doesn't put any significant burden on the company. If America cared about the environment then the top selling vehicles wouldn't be full size trucks and SUVs to haul 1 person around.

 

[Mr. Widget]

We are just wasting our time discussing the government...

Since no one including the next administration has any real plans yet beyond talking points and grand schemes.

 

[Phillies8008]

It’s been explained to you by Cruzer666 as to how it could be done at the state or local level of government and a presidential executive order is ONE way it can be done at the national level.

I vote in elections on what I can vote on. You talk of a “King”. In my opinion this government although labeled as a democracy, has been partial anarchy since the 1950s. How else can it be explained that some laws are upheld when others like the basic law of sovereignty etc. are not.
And again Corporations and lawyers technically do not run this country, even if you think otherwise.

And yes Global Climate Change is real and its effects are being felt MUCH sooner than scientists originally thought. The more time wasted switching over to EVs, means much worse consequences for all. We NEED a better EV Charging infrastructure as soon as possible.

The only thing that's even vaguely been explained is that we could change building codes, something that does zero to address today's need. Other than that, it's been fan fiction about Executive Orders and other "force".

Seriously: please explain what mechanism, outside of farcical Executive Orders, does the government have to compel existing businesses, in their existing, un-modified locations, to "force" the installation of EV chargers? You keep talking about "forcing" them to do it, with no explanation as to how this will be done in the real world.

Very few people here are arguing that we don't need better EV infrastructure – I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an EV-owner who doesn't agree. But just because you want it doesn't mean you're going to get by wishing upon a star Executive Order.

 

[rollermonkey]

Mechanisms exist at a local level, but surely would be unpopular. For example, a state or locality could raise a nasty property tax on fuel dispensing businesses and include a generous offset back to previous levels if the business installs EV infrastructure. But the motivation has to exist, and the politicians not fear repercussion, otherwise, status quo.

 

[bbgator]

vaguely been explained is that we could change building codes, something that does zero to address today's need.

Got to start somewhere! Go too big and we will be complaining about the same thing in 20 years. Baby steps! Look at Norway's action plan...right to charge in 2017. Something is better than nothing especially when 3/4 of the country doesn't care about EVs. EVs are still are a small percentage of new car sales in the USA.

I don't have a major problem with infrastructure since I still have a gas car for when I go certain rural places where charging is doable but a pain. It is obviously more difficult than gas but doable. I can make by with just my EV or just rent a car for the 2 trips a year that are a pain. I still do 3 x 1,000+ mile round trip road trips a year in the i4 without major issues.

 

[JDS44]

Nuclear accidents are more severe than others. I don't know anything else that can cause clear damage for hundreds or thousands of years. Land is precious and we shouldn't waste it. Air polution causes cancer, but so does radioactive pollution that you have to find a place to store. I'd be for more Nuclear under ideal regulation that forces safety and burn fuel till it is less radioactive, but we don't have that in the USA. I'm currently in the “not in my backyard” camp. We just have so much more we can do with other technologies like solar and wind first.

Our first goal on clean energy should be reducing our energy usage. After living in a concrete house then moving to a wood framed house, I'm beyond amazed on how much more energy the house uses. We should first focus on regulation to force people to make our houses more energy efficient. Better insulation, heat pump hot water heaters (hot climates), geothermal heat pumps, and more efficient appliances can make a big difference.

No and it hasn't. We have a lot of nuclear equipment in the military. It has a clear advantage for some applications. There is no perfect solution to energy creation and we need Nuclear to some degree since it isn't always sonny or windy. Solar creates a lot of pollution making solar panels. But of all the technologies, it has the least major issues. Plus I'd love it if I had solar covered parking that could charge my car while I was at work.

you are dreaming. Reality will tell you that with the needs we are and will put on the electric grid, Nuclear power is not a wish, it is a must. I certainly agree that we need to be cautious and use safeguards. But to think that you can fill the future world needs without Nuclear power is nothing more than ridiculous.

 

[ScottB-LA]

And in the meantime young/new drivers will not adopt EVs, even though cheap used ones will be available, as they don’t want to be disadvantaged or inconvenienced…
That’s why the implementation of electric fast chargers needs to be FORCED on gas stations in the U.S.A.

Biden didn’t do much of anything for EV owners in my opinion. With Trump being friends with Musk, it’s more likely that Trump forces the implementation of electric fast chargers at gas stations.

During the Ukraine war Russia was shelling one of their nuclear power plants. During war nuclear power plants can also be targeted…

This is silly talk. We don’t force private companies that aren’t related to electric vehicles to have to provide charging capabilities. That’s not how it works in America.

 

[ScottB-LA]

This is silly talk. We don’t force private companies that aren’t related to electric vehicles to have to provide charging capabilities. That’s not how it works in America.

We can incentivize, but we can’t force. The other side of that coin is why don’t we make all EV owners pay an extra tax to pay for fast chargers everywhere?

 

[mlchem08]

why don’t we make all EV owners pay an extra tax to pay for fast chargers everywhere?

Theoretically, we can claim that all American taxpayers are paying for the installation of fast chargers through the Infrastructure Law, which includes the $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program and the $5 billion National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) formula program. Just yesterday, the DOE announced "the closing of a $1.25 billion loan guarantee ($1.05 billion of principal and $193 million of capitalized interest) to EVgo" to build out DC fast chargers (link). From the announcement: "The loan guarantee will support EVgo’s deployment of approximately 7,500 chargers at roughly 1,100 charging stations across the United States. The first deployments will include dual-port high-power 350kW direct current (DC) fast charging equipment capable of charging two EVs simultaneously, and EVgo plans to continue installing power sharing equipment over the 5-year deployment timeline." So it seems like progress is still underway.

 

[gsbaker]

Two thoughts that come to mind; one is an often repeated phrase and the other a social phenomenon. The phrase is “Which came first? The Chicken or the Egg?” the other is what is called a “Tipping Point”. A combination of the two almost certainly exists with respect to both EV adoptions, which need Public/Retail Support/Charging Systems needed and the Number of on-road EV’s will justify a sustainable ROI for the investment in Public/Retail Support/Charging Systems. It would seem that as a country, Norway has already past the point of the Chicken and the Egg question and crossed a Tipping Point recently. I’d be real curious who is studying this. It’s really important if you’re in the business of manufacturing cars. I was, and I recall another phrase, “The Handwriting is on the Wall.” I’d want to know what combination of market dynamics and their timing created the current EV Market in Norway. Cheap Hydro power is certainly part of it, but that’s been a constant, what changed and when?

Just a few thoughts:

Well the egg came first, because dinosaurs and fish all laid eggs.

If all your eggs are in one basket, the last thing you want is a tipping point.

The handwriting on the wall portended disaster.

Yikes

😉

 

[gsbaker]

Starbucks would be a good idea, but in the U.S. it would be hard to get your food and finish within ~20 minutes inside a sit down fast food restaurant.
The i4 charges quite fast. I haven’t used gas stations in the U.K., but in Germany some larger gas stations have already prepared food that can be served up real quick. Usually the largest gas station in a town or the one closest to the Autobahn. So you could have Frikadellen or Wienerschnitzel on a plate with German Potato Salad served up just about as fast as you could get a hot dog or a slice of pizza from a 711. Even with ready made sandwiches, gas stations with electric fast chargers would make a ton with their “captive audience”…

There should be more attention paid to the middle range chargers, 50-62kW. These should be cheaper and can serve a useful clientele of shoppers and diners who would want to spend up to an hour parked.

So for the same cost, putting many 62kW chargers instead of a few 350s could make sense.

Sadly, NEVI does not promote this option.

 

[gsbaker]

I must be the only one that isn't convinced on spending taxpayers money on EV chargers unless it is to serve rural areas that have no chargers because it is not cost effective.

If you want mass EV adoption, then you need L2 for new apartment complexes. Even better is in new parking lots for business. Ideally you would charge while at work using solar energy. That isn't a big burden for businesses or apartment complexes. Cannot force gas stations to put in expensive DCFC and no one wants to spend 8 hours at a gas station... I'm not sure if gas stations are the best location for DCFC. I want my DCFC in places with food along the interstate.

Actually, the NEVI program, at least in NC, promotes building dcfc along the major highway corridors in the state at intervals of no more than 75 miles, with emphasis on underserved communities.

You are absolutely right about pushing apartment complexes either to support charging, or to stop obstructing them.

We can’t have mass adoption while excluding a large class of people, namely city-dwellers, who can be at all income levels.

 

[bbgator]

62kW chargers instead of a few 350s could make sense.

I've never understood Whole Foods and other grosery stores with the 6KW chargers. Useless. I've never used a DCFC under 150KW, most are in poor locations like dealerships, but I agree if in the right location.

For the i4, the difference between 350KW and 150KW is only a few minutes and the 150KW may be slightly better for the battery. I don't like that EA is really only putting in 350KW chargers now. A lot of locations only have 350KW chargers now and have a line. If they put in 150KW they could put in double for the same amount of money and there wouldn't be lines at chargers.