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I don't like that EA is really only putting in 350KW chargers now. A lot of locations only have 350KW chargers now and have a line. If they put in 150KW they could put in double for the same amount of money and there wouldn't be lines at chargers.
I agree more chargers at well used charging locations is the solution. I am not sure if there is that much of a cost savings between 350kW and 150kW chargers though and locations near me with 150kW chargers seem top be less popular with users... which is likely due to ignorance.

I was at the EA flagship Harrison street station a few days ago and there was a line. This was the first time I had been there when all 20 chargers were in use. Because it has 20 chargers even with teh line someone completed charging every minute so the wait for a 4 car line was less than 5 minutes.
 
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I've never understood Whole Foods and other grosery stores with the 6KW chargers. Useless. I've never used a DCFC under 150KW, most are in poor locations like dealerships, but I agree if in the right location.

For the i4, the difference between 350KW and 150KW is only a few minutes and the 150KW may be slightly better for the battery. I don't like that EA is really only putting in 350KW chargers now. A lot of locations only have 350KW chargers now and have a line. If they put in 150KW they could put in double for the same amount of money and there wouldn't be lines at chargers.
I suppose the 6kW chargers hark back to the time some years ago when electric cars had very limited range and were fairly small. So if you parked an hour while buying groceries you could add 15-20 miles of range; enough to cover your trip from home.

I suppose people could run errands all day and top up multiple times along the way.

BTW, I was asking about 62 kW chargers, which could serve a similar role with a bigger EV. Plus the longer time could be desirable to get people off your back about parking wo charging.

This assumes, of course, that one invests the same money as a DCFC, but puts in the greater number of units, so people can take the time
 
Ionna has broken ground on several recharging stations.


promising
They have recently announced 3 more stations, in partnership with Sheetz.

IONNA and Sheetz Combine Efforts in Opening American Roads to EV Charging

"IONNA will be opening EV Rechargeries at three Sheetz locations in late December 2024: Springfield & Willoughby, Ohio, and Scranton, Pennsylvania."

"The IONNA / Sheetz Rechargeries will include multiple high power charging bays, covered by the signature red canopies for weather protection. Like all traditional refuelers, Rechargery users will enjoy full access to Sheetz amenities including restrooms, food & beverage, Wi-Fi etc."
 
owns 2024 BMW i4 xDrive40
Also, Costco has opened DCFC at 5 locations (link):

https://media.electrifyamerica.com/releases/260

"Electrify America and Costco Wholesale are now offering new electric vehicle charging stations at five Costco Wholesale locations. The charging stations feature Hyper-Fast chargers capable of speeds up to 350 kW “and will help meet the growing demand for open and convenient fast charging,” according to a press release.

The five charging stations are in California, Colorado and Florida and are owned by Costco. Costco said the charging stations will be compatible with nearly all-electric vehicle (EV) brands with pricing set by Costco.

“The charging stations are integrated into the Electrify America charging network, enabling customers to seamlessly locate the stations and pay for charging sessions via the Electrify America app,” Electrify America said.

The open Costco stations are located in:

-Clermont, Florida, 4600 Collina Terrace, with six Hyper-Fast chargers
-Denver, Colorado, 4717 Airport Way, with six Hyper-Fast chargers
-Loomis, California, 4107 Sierra College Blvd., with 14 Hyper-Fast chargers
-Pleasanton, California, 7220 Johnson Drive, with 10 Hyper-Fast chargers
-Sacramento, California, 3881 E Commerce Way, with 10 Hyper-Fast chargers

In October, NACS Daily reported that Costco was adding DC fast chargers to its new warehouse store in Ridgefield, Washington, reported by Kron 4.
"
 
owns 2024 BMW i4 xDrive40
-Clermont, Florida, 4600 Collina Terrace, with six Hyper-Fast chargers
-Denver, Colorado, 4717 Airport Way, with six Hyper-Fast chargers
I've used both of these locations many times. The Orlando (Clermont) location is west Orlando. This was Orlando's 3rd location. Orlando desperately needs more EA locations, so this was a welcome addition. It has been my go to charger in Orlando since the Mall location usually has a long line. The Denver location is near the airport and great for a top off before returning your car.

I have issue with all the Costco and Sam's locations. This might be good for drivers without home charging. When road tripping these are bad locations. Who buys bulk goods on a road trip? The crappy pizza and hot dogs is bad road trip food. If your lucky you can get free samples. Costco is also getting strict on non-members sneaking in. They are also located in places away from other walkable food. Sadly I prefer Walmart locations over these. Walmart is open later, doesn't require membership, and has healthier options in normal sizes. The bar is low when Walmart wins.
 
Honestly, I think that Walmart / Costco / Sam's Club are equally crappy locations for fast charging, though I'll certainly take them over nothing. In my experience, the chargers are usually tucked way back into a corner of the parking lot, not particularly convenient to anything; I find that I end up sitting in the car more than anything.

Hands-down the best chargers that I use are at Buc-ees: plentiful, working, and in very close proximity to decent food and clean bathrooms. These are the sorts of locations that the EAs of the world need to focused on. Selfishly, I'd also love to see QT begin to put in chargers – they're another great place to stop with pretty good food and clean bathrooms.
 
Everyone wants something different. EA cannot win!

Buc-ees are always good charging locations. A lot of Wawa's have Tesla chargers. Not a fan of gas stations for charging. Even gas stations that I love their food... you're not always in the mood for that offerning. Usually limited food options nearby unless you want gas station food. I prefer larger shopping areas or Malls near the interstate. Most already have Tesla chargers. They are great with multiple food choices. Yes the chargers are in the back corner, but I don't mind stretching the legs after driving for 3-4 hours. Typing this while charging at a Sam's club that is closed.
 
I'd be happy with EA if they could manage to keep their chargers functional, and put more than four or six in all of their locations. The proximity to whatever is a secondary concern, way below "working and plentiful".
 
Am I the only person who didn't know that the company EVGo was a punishment doled out to flippin' Enron/NRG Energy?
 
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Am I the only person who didn't know that the company EVGo was a punishment doled out to flippin' Enron/NRG Energy?
First time I have heard about it.
 
EVGo was a punishment doled out to flippin' Enron/NRG Energy?
Almost all of them in the USA are punishment except Tesla. I listed 4+ charging companies in a previous post. That is why they suck. They are incentivized by contracts and not what is best for drivers. No money in EV charging. Expensive equipment, expensive to maintain, low utilization in most places, cable theft, high maintenance cost due to new tech, and high support cost due to long distance between chargers and non-tech people trying to use them.

I haven't looked at EA's details but I'm sure they are using 350KW over 200KW chargers to game a contract. I see Tesla putting still putting 250KW Shared chargers while EA is putting in 350KW dedicated in most places. I've seen some EAs with shared chargers between 2 but not site level control like Tesla. EA usually just derates the whole site for hours vs dynamically. That cost a lot more so they are gaming something. Especially when impact pricing is insane on 350KW chargers. Tesla does it right with shared, they get more chargers at a lower cost and limit their impact energy fees.
 
As expected, Trump has suspended the "50% of vehicles sold by 2030 should be electric" order by Biden, and suspended disbursement of unspent NEVI funds for public charging infrastructure (news article). His order also calls for "ending a waiver for states to adopt zero emission vehicle rules by 2035".

So, it seems the best we can hope for in the next few years (vis-à-vis "infrastructure improvements") is the completion of work from ongoing awarded contracts.
 
I thought the USA was the country of entrepreneurs! What is all this talk about governments!
Just one example...but if not for gov. you would still be drinking water through lead pipes.
 
As expected, Trump has suspended the "50% of vehicles sold by 2030 should be electric" order by Biden, and suspended disbursement of unspent NEVI funds for public charging infrastructure (news article). His order also calls for "ending a waiver for states to adopt zero emission vehicle rules by 2035".

So, it seems the best we can hope for in the next few years (vis-à-vis "infrastructure improvements") is the completion of work from ongoing awarded contracts.
Not sure how much of an effect it will have on developments. Here in the Atlanta metro area, there are more and more EVs on the road. There is a demand for it, and the private sector will supply it, hopefully.
 
Not sure how much of an effect it will have on developments. Here in the Atlanta metro area, there are more and more EVs on the road. There is a demand for it, and the private sector will supply it, hopefully.
Agreed. In truth, leaving it to the government to build an EV-charging infrastructure isn't the best idea any way. So far as I'm aware, there was never a government push for gas stations.
 
Just one example...but if not for gov. you would still be drinking water through lead pipes.
…and driving on dirt roads, no electricity to the house unless you make it yourself, no seatbelts in cars, no safety standards for airlines/medicine/food/electric wiring/plumbing/construction…, no GPS, the list goes on.

The libertarian outlook reminds me of cats. Loners and independent right up until dinner time - and then if it’s the wrong food you get pee in your shoes.
 
Agreed. In truth, leaving it to the government to build an EV-charging infrastructure isn't the best idea any way. So far as I'm aware, there was never a government push for gas stations.
Not directly, indirectly yes, several Federal Highway Acts, tax policies incentivized building crap ton of them.

If you look at history, government push plays an important role in evolution. "Leaving it to the free market" doesn't always work. We likely wouldn't have solar panels on our roofs or EVs on the road (or interstates) without government push.
 
I’m far from a fan of either libertarianism or the new administration, but the sooner we are rid of gov’t-mandated and gov’t-subsidized DCFC, the better!

Perhaps an argument can still be made for the early years, given the chicken-and-the-egg problem.

But now, really? We’ve already had enough years of EA, NEVI, and various state programs to call it a wrap on the “natural experiment” with the principal-agent problem. Ford has also contributed to this unintended research, with its mandated chargers at independently owned dealers often ICE’ed by the dealer’s own cars or entirely broken (as has been the case with all three chargers at Bow NH).

The one good role for gov’t would be to speed up the utility hook-up process. What that would look like at some combination of the local, state, and/or federal levels, I have no idea. But even Tesla often has a long wait for that.

And as for other networks, I recently stopped at a new station with two 180kW chargers, each with two plugs that can be used simultaneously. Everything looked ready to go. Checked the app: “Coming soon!” I called the network out of curiosity. Based on a service ticket, looked like the station work finished in August 2024. The customer service rep said she’s seen stations stay in this status for years. Bonus points that it must have received state funding, as the location makes no sense, a 20-mile roundtrip from the interstate, with no on-site amenities other than a souvenir shop open only a few months out of the year (which therefore must be reliant on gov’t funding, not the site owner’s funding).

At least a somewhat nearby town put in a station at a perfect location, right next to an interstate exit, using up $2.46 million of federal CFI funding for merely two DCFC chargers (plus a couple L2), each with two plugs that can used simultaneously, with a maximum speed of … supposedly 640kW, but I only briefly hit barely above 100kW when I should have been at around 225kW (not in our i4, but in a different EV that also allows me to see the actual battery temperature, so definitely wasn’t my car’s fault).

Almost all of them in the USA are punishment except Tesla. I listed 4+ charging companies in a previous post. That is why they suck. They are incentivized by contracts and not what is best for drivers. No money in EV charging. Expensive equipment, expensive to maintain, low utilization in most places, cable theft, high maintenance cost due to new tech, and high support cost due to long distance between chargers and non-tech people trying to use them.

I haven't looked at EA's details but I'm sure they are using 350KW over 200KW chargers to game a contract. I see Tesla putting still putting 250KW Shared chargers while EA is putting in 350KW dedicated in most places. I've seen some EAs with shared chargers between 2 but not site level control like Tesla. EA usually just derates the whole site for hours vs dynamically. That cost a lot more so they are gaming something. Especially when impact pricing is insane on 350KW chargers. Tesla does it right with shared, they get more chargers at a lower cost and limit their impact energy fees.
Yes, not much money to be made in EV charging since so much of the money invested in EV charging is somebody else's money or money that is being forced to be spent, so profitability from reliability doesn't seem to matter.

EA though had complete flexibility for station setup. The consent decree requires spending $2b in officially termed Creditable Costs on EV charging and related initiatives.

This old interview from over half-a-decade ago is highly revealing:

https://insideevs.com/news/389891/exclusive-interview-electrify-america-problems-solutions/

“I then asked if the aggressive timeline was a problem and that if they had more time to install the units would there have been fewer issues. They refused to use that as an excuse and told me that they are the ones responsible for the timeline. Electrify America provided the plan to CARB and the EPA, the governing bodies overseeing Electrify America's work, they weren't told how many units they had to install by what deadline. They set the deadlines so they aren't going to complain about them now.”​
“They also told me that they didn't have to install these ultra-high-speed chargers, they choose to. They could have installed thousands of 50 kW DC fast chargers and called it a day. That would have been so much easier because there were existing vendors with proven units. The parts supply chain was already in place and they wouldn't have had to use so many different vendors. However, they choose to take the hard route, because it's what they felt was needed to really push electric vehicle proliferation.”​
“So they knew full well there were going to be problems in the beginning because they were basically inventing new units and that their issues would be compounded by the fact that they needed to fix every issue four times. Why do it, then? According to Palazzo and Jones, it was partly because they are electric vehicle believers and wanted to help drive mass adoption, and also partly because the network needs to be sustainable after the ten-year implementation period. Having a network of 150 kW to 350 kW chargers guarantees that they won't be obsolete any time soon.”​

As we all know now, all of those chargers are being replaced because they become functionally obsolete. My favorite is the West Lebanon NH that lasted only a couple years before its 2x150kW + 2x350kW had to be replaced given poor reliability even by EA standards (e.g., all four chargers were broken on Labor Day 2023).

All these experiences are making me consider getting a lawn sign with this slogan:

 
I’m far from a fan of either libertarianism or the new administration, but the sooner we are rid of gov’t-mandated and gov’t-subsidized DCFC, the better!

Perhaps an argument can still be made for the early years, given the chicken-and-the-egg problem.

But now, really? We’ve already had enough years of EA, NEVI, and various state programs to call it a wrap on the “natural experiment” with the principal-agent problem. Ford has also contributed to this unintended research, with its mandated chargers at independently owned dealers often ICE’ed by the dealer’s own cars or entirely broken (as has been the case with all three chargers at Bow NH).

The one good role for gov’t would be to speed up the utility hook-up process. What that would look like at some combination of the local, state, and/or federal levels, I have no idea. But even Tesla often has a long wait for that.

And as for other networks, I recently stopped at a new station with two 180kW chargers, each with two plugs that can be used simultaneously. Everything looked ready to go. Checked the app: “Coming soon!” I called the network out of curiosity. Based on a service ticket, looked like the station work finished in August 2024. The customer service rep said she’s seen stations stay in this status for years. Bonus points that it must have received state funding, as the location makes no sense, a 20-mile roundtrip from the interstate, with no on-site amenities other than a souvenir shop open only a few months out of the year (which therefore must be reliant on gov’t funding, not the site owner’s funding).

At least a somewhat nearby town put in a station at a perfect location, right next to an interstate exit, using up $2.46 million of federal CFI funding for merely two DCFC chargers (plus a couple L2), each with two plugs that can used simultaneously, with a maximum speed of … supposedly 640kW, but I only briefly hit barely above 100kW when I should have been at around 225kW (not in our i4, but in a different EV that also allows me to see the actual battery temperature, so definitely wasn’t my car’s fault).



Yes, not much money to be made in EV charging since so much of the money invested in EV charging is somebody else's money or money that is being forced to be spent, so profitability from reliability doesn't seem to matter.

EA though had complete flexibility for station setup. The consent decree requires spending $2b in officially termed Creditable Costs on EV charging and related initiatives.

This old interview from over half-a-decade ago is highly revealing:

https://insideevs.com/news/389891/exclusive-interview-electrify-america-problems-solutions/

“I then asked if the aggressive timeline was a problem and that if they had more time to install the units would there have been fewer issues. They refused to use that as an excuse and told me that they are the ones responsible for the timeline. Electrify America provided the plan to CARB and the EPA, the governing bodies overseeing Electrify America's work, they weren't told how many units they had to install by what deadline. They set the deadlines so they aren't going to complain about them now.”​
“They also told me that they didn't have to install these ultra-high-speed chargers, they choose to. They could have installed thousands of 50 kW DC fast chargers and called it a day. That would have been so much easier because there were existing vendors with proven units. The parts supply chain was already in place and they wouldn't have had to use so many different vendors. However, they choose to take the hard route, because it's what they felt was needed to really push electric vehicle proliferation.”​
“So they knew full well there were going to be problems in the beginning because they were basically inventing new units and that their issues would be compounded by the fact that they needed to fix every issue four times. Why do it, then? According to Palazzo and Jones, it was partly because they are electric vehicle believers and wanted to help drive mass adoption, and also partly because the network needs to be sustainable after the ten-year implementation period. Having a network of 150 kW to 350 kW chargers guarantees that they won't be obsolete any time soon.”​

As we all know now, all of those chargers are being replaced because they become functionally obsolete. My favorite is the West Lebanon NH that lasted only a couple years before its 2x150kW + 2x350kW had to be replaced given poor reliability even by EA standards (e.g., all four chargers were broken on Labor Day 2023).

All these experiences are making me consider getting a lawn sign with this slogan:

The post means absolutely nothing to me, because I don't know what DCFC stands for. And if it stands for Derby County Football Club it is even more obtuse!
 
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