[tonyquan]

Is there a visual difference between the V3 chargers and older ones? I know V4 looks completely different, but I don't know enough about the Tesla world to know if the older ones are easily identifiable. That will become important for us when visiting sites like that with a mixture, because we will have to make sure to pull up to the newer V3 stalls at that site.

The Tesla app already is capable of labelling the Magic Dock chargers and showing those to you (the ones that currently have a CCS adapter), so it wouldn't be much work to extend that to showing V3+ once this rolls out.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Hmm, good point -- I hadn't thought about that!
Based upon a quick search, if you're at a mixed V2 & V3 site, the clues are relatively subtle:

1. V3 has a thinner cable.
2. V3 has a power cabinet for every four chargers, whereas V2 has a power cabinet for every two chargers.
3. V2 chargers have a label or either A or B.
4. Some chargers might be labeled 250 or 150.

 

[rollermonkey]

One point, Tesla does have some incentive to replace Gen 1 and 2 chargers, as you mentioned these only support lower power delivery, so even for their own customers moving these to Gen 3 or higher provides benefit.

This seems so bass-ackwards to me.
The biggest problem out there is rapidly becoming not enough chargers at any given station. Replacing pedestals at a 1:1 for speed gains that many current cars can't even benefit from, is not a great solution, IMO. Adding stalls, even if it means leaving some slower ones in place gets things moving much faster overall.

 

[LifeBelowZero]

This seems so bass-ackwards to me.
The biggest problem out there is rapidly becoming not enough chargers at any given station. Replacing pedestals at a 1:1 for speed gains that many current cars can't even benefit from, is not a great solution, IMO. Adding stalls, even if it means leaving some slower ones in place gets things moving much faster overall.

Tesla's main incentive is to provide a great experience for people who purchase a Tesla. There's a lot of benefit to existing customers of a faster charger. Why should they focus only on higher capacity?

 

[JToddK]

Tesla's main incentive is to provide a great experience for people who purchase a Tesla. There's a lot of benefit to existing customers of a faster charger. Why should they focus only on higher capacity?

Tesla built the Supercharger network because it was necessary to sell their cars. As competition entered the car market, it became a selling point for purchase of a Tesla, but not a persuasive one for many (at least for me). Arguably, there is also increased competition from DCFC suppliers. I observe that Tesla has been doing DCFC for a while with the benefit of a controlled customer base. Others, not so much or for so long. Maybe it'll get better. IMHO, the network no longer gives them (Tesla) a competitive advantage. Time has past for them to open to other makers (in progress), expand to a general market (maybe soon) or sell off the DCFC operations (my prediction). High(er) speed chargers would be a more valuable asset.

 

[rollermonkey]

Tesla's main incentive is to provide a great experience for people who purchase a Tesla. There's a lot of benefit to existing customers of a faster charger. Why should they focus only on higher capacity?

Because pulling up to a charge location, whether SC or other, and finding cars in every stall, and 6 cars already waiting, sucks way more than pulling into an open stall, and 'only' getting half the theoretical max rate?

 

[rickysmith39]

It's also worth noting that charging infrastructure companies Electrify America and ChargePoint have also announced that they will be pivoting from CCS to NACS plugs in their charging stations, making the new standard for EV charging readily available. It won't be long before NACS becomes the industry standard.
At some point, even if you don't use a Tesla fast charger, EVs that were built with a CCS1 charger inlet will need the NACS to CCS1 adapter to even use a Electrify America charger.
The biggest losers in this format war are the Nissan leaf owners who have the Chadamo charger inlet. Last week they were all saved when a CCS1 to Chademo adapter made it to market. That adapter is $1000. For Leaf owners I recommend they wait for a NACS to Chademo adapter to become available.
with either of these $1000 adapters they could still end up needing to use a second adapter connected to that.
Imagine having to connect several adapters together to charge at a fast charger.
Like the maze of extension cords on a Christmas tree. Lol
In the big picture, I'm glad this format war is over and soon all USA vehicles will be using the same connector.
In Europe they were not gonna play this game and forced Tesla to use CCS2 connectors because they didn't want 3 different cords at every charger.
Europe also forced Apple to use the USB-C charger connector on their phones for similar reasons. Next year Apple plans to switch to USB-C connectors in the US, all on their own.
USA did start out the hard way with EV chargers, but in the end I believe the NACS connector really is the best, so in the US we will have light convenient cords and connectors, while those in Europe will be stuck with huge awkward to handle CCS2 connectors.
Better late than never.

 

[LifeBelowZero]

Because pulling up to a charge location, whether SC or other, and finding cars in every stall, and 6 cars already waiting, sucks way more than pulling into an open stall, and 'only' getting half the theoretical max rate?

Well if the chargers reliably charge twice as fast that would cut the wait queue the same as doubling the number of chargers, and give people a better experience. I think we need both more and faster chargers

 

[JToddK]

At some point, even if you don't use a Tesla fast charger, EVs that were built with a CCS1 charger inlet will need the NACS to CCS1 adapter to even use a Electrify America.

The biggest losers in this format war are the Nissan leaf owners who have the Chadamo charger inlet. Last week they were all saved when a CCS1 to Chademo adapter made it to market. That adapter is $1000. For Leaf owners I recommend they wait for a NACS to Chademo adapter to become available.
with either of these $1000 adapters they could still end up needing to use a second adapter connected to that.
Imagine having to connect several adapters together to charge at a fast charger.

I see NACS-only availability only in the distant future - well beyond the life of my i4, and possibly even mine. Existing infrastructure and all new charger builds (with NEVI funding) will have CCS1 and I just don't see either the laws or the vendors abandoning the legacy cars. That point is way too far out to worry about.

At the existing DCFC stations, we do see some issues with the ChaDeMo cars today. They are limited in charge speed by the basic design. AFAIK, the Leaf has a max rate of 46kw, even slower than the hated Bolts. That's the meme of the future, a Leaf with a bunch of adapters charging to 100% at a 350kW charger while the line grows.

 

[rollermonkey]

Well if the chargers reliably charge twice as fast that would cut the wait queue the same as doubling the number of chargers, and give people a better experience. I think we need both more and faster chargers

Gah. Just because a charger can give 250 or 350 kW, it won't speed anything up for the tens of thousands of cars already out there that can never take higher speeds than they can now.

You're designing against a future that isn't here yet, without solving the current problem. This is not 2019 any more, and charge stations are now frequently filling due to quantities of cars, more than imperfect quality of sessions. Adding stalls.

Just as an example, the EA charger nearest me has had 3 stalls since it was installed in 2017. It still has 3 stalls despite 4 upgrades, and where they used to sit empty most days, there is now often 6-10 cars waiting, and many of those cannot accept the 350 kW they can theoretically deliver.
Upgrading the station has not helped, but there could be as many as 12 chargers by now. You wouldn't need to sit in the car and wait for your turn, but could actually plug in and shop or eat, instead. They've upgraded twice just in the time I've had my i4, and they were not broken either time. In other words, they solved the wrong problem.

 

[rickysmith39]

So if they leave the older level 1 and 2 chargers there, and just install more level 3 and 4 chargers next to them, when the lines form for the level 3 and 4 chargers, a Tesla who doesn't want to wait can use the older chargers instead of waiting in line.
Pretty sure someone at Tesla will than figure out how to get the older chargers to work on the CCS EVs. Maybe just a minor update to the older hardware. Most of the CCS EVs will be happy with max 150mah charging speeds.

 

[rickysmith39]

I got info from A2Z website who also makes this adapter. Same price and they have already started shipping since January 5th.
Tesla v3,v4, and NACS level 3 DC charger are 3 different types of chargers. A level 3 DC charger is, different from a v3 supercharger, because it's a non Tesla charger with a NACS connector. We will see these in the future evidently.

Requirements :

• For CCS1 port equipped vehicles
• V3 and V4 Tesla Superchargers (250kW and above).
• Any NACS (Tesla) level 3 (DC) charging station

Also found this note on the site?
Not working until Tesla Superchargers are open to your specific car brand.

 

[JToddK]

So if they leave the older level 1 and 2 chargers there, and just install more level 3 and 4 chargers next to them, when the lines form for the level 3 and 4 chargers, a Tesla who doesn't want to wait can use the older chargers instead of waiting in line.
Pretty sure someone at Tesla will than figure out how to get the older chargers to work on the CCS EVs. Maybe just a minor update to the older hardware. Most of the CCS EVs will be happy with max 150mah charging speeds.

Just a clarification on terminology: All of the Tesla "Superchargers" are Level 3 - DC Fast Charge ("DCFC"). Level1 and Level2 charging are AC, typically 120V and 240V, respectively. Over the years, Tesla has produced multiple versions of their proprietary DCFC, dubbed V1 to V4. I don't know if any V1's are still in service. Calling the versions "levels" can be confusing, at least to me.

Tesla cars have historically used a different method of communication than CCS cars. Older cars can be updated; AFAIK, newer ones support CCS and Tesla legacy CAN buss. We probably shouldn't take a deeper dive into the specifics here. (Some details at: How Does Tesla Charging Work? An In-Depth Overview By Ingineerix and An Introduction to the SAE J1772 and CCS EV Charging Interfaces) The NACS connector uses CCS communication protocol, V2 and earlier Superchargers don't support it. Given the other infrastructure needs, power cabinets and utility supply, probably easier to just upgrade the unit.

 

[rickysmith39]

I got email yesterday from electron.
They listed the estimated dates each brand of vehicle should be able to use Tesla chargers. Ford in February. GM March. BMW is near the end of the list, October.
Lectron said they will ship before Wednesday to those who fill out the questionnaire.
They ask what brand vehicle you have.
They also ask if you want them to delay shipping your adapter, until the month your vehicle is eligible. I have Ford and BMW so I asked them to ship ASAP. Hoping I can charge my BMW with my Ford app. Possibly I may need to park my Ford at the same charger stall to charge the BMW.
If it works I may even pay to charge a few random cars at the chargers to see if I can get other brands to work. I'll do some experimenting once my adapter arrives and after I can first charge my Ford using the adapter.
Unless possibly the Tesla app will work for both cars. If prefer not to need different apps for each car.
Getting exciting.

 

[rollermonkey]

Weird. I've gotten no such email.

 

[kindofblue]

I got email yesterday from electron.
They listed the estimated dates each brand of vehicle should be able to use Tesla chargers. Ford in February. GM March. BMW is near the end of the list, October.
Lectron said they will ship before Wednesday to those who fill out the questionnaire.
They ask what brand vehicle you have.
They also ask if you want them to delay shipping your adapter, until the month your vehicle is eligible. I have Ford and BMW so I asked them to ship ASAP. Hoping I can charge my BMW with my Ford app. Possibly I may need to park my Ford at the same charger stall to charge the BMW.
If it works I may even pay to charge a few random cars at the chargers to see if I can get other brands to work. I'll do some experimenting once my adapter arrives and after I can first charge my Ford using the adapter.
Unless possibly the Tesla app will work for both cars. If prefer not to need different apps for each car.
Getting exciting.

I'm in the same boat as you with an MME and an i4 and just ordered the adapter. I am looking forward though to your experience using the adapter w/the i4.

 

[rickysmith39]

Weird. I've gotten no such email.

Have you been getting spammed by lectron with regular emails about 5% off codes?

 

[Magicrat]

Pretty pissy we might have to wait until Oct 24 to use the Tesla Superchargers. Its about when I stop driving the car on road trips. 😕

 

[Jonathan S.]

Those Lectron estimates are purely conjecture.
Even the February date for Ford is merely an interpretation of an offhand remark by a Tesla representative at a local government hearing.

 

[gsbaker]

Those Lectron estimates are purely conjecture.
Even the February date for Ford is merely an interpretation of an offhand remark by a Tesla representative at a local government hearing.

Sometimes an offhand remark is meaningful.

remember the Berlin wall got torn down due to an offhand remark by a lower minister who was left alone at a press conference.