I'm (hopefully) not anywhere near the need to have the battery replaced on my 2023 i4, but has anyone done so, and if so, how expensive was it to replace the battery?
Replacement Battery
zoomiq
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The replacement cost of the High voltage battery really only comes into play for insurance and accidents. As @Wunsch put it, very few consumers will ever buy a new battery.
Most of us have insurance which battery cost drives up insurance rates. Insurance rates are high because most body shops do not know how to repair batteries and are too worried about liability to try. So a lot of cars are totaled because they price a brand new battery. (at least in the US)
Most of us have insurance which battery cost drives up insurance rates. Insurance rates are high because most body shops do not know how to repair batteries and are too worried about liability to try. So a lot of cars are totaled because they price a brand new battery. (at least in the US)
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Who knows, maybe in 10 years, when your battery will be worn, you might be able to purchase a solid state battery for cheap which might even increase your range.
10 years will bring us in 2034 where all Europe will be exclusively driving electric vehicles as per law
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10 years will bring us in 2034 where all Europe will be exclusively driving electric vehicles as per law
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There is an 8 year warranty on the battery. Why worry about it now? I mean, do you have this car? Do you have a problem with the battery? If yes, then contact BMW and get it fixed under warranty free of charge for you. If I have the car 7 years from now (mine is one year + now) and I have some issues with the battery which would warrant a replacement and I want to pay for it then I'll find out the costs. For all we know, batteries will fall in price, or new types of replacement batteries will be available, or the market collapsed totally and no one makes them by then... who knows what happens... I'll worry when it happens.
One of the reasons I had for buying this car was that I figured that even if the battery will degrade over time and will fall below 70% of capacity I can still use the car for all my needs, including long trips. That is, of course, unless the EV market totally dies and public chargers are removed from the roads, in which case I would still be able to use the car for all my local trips, as long as I can get home in time for the next charging. If not then I can always call road side assistance and pay for the transport to my home in case of an emergency.
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Actually, in EU it is only two years, but you can buy 3 extra years and get a total of 5 years warranty on the car, which I did.
Of course, if the battery would suddenly totally die at 8 years - 1 day then it's still fine for me, but 8 years +1 day is a disaster. Make sure you are driving on the last day of the warranty, just to make a final test. Of course, it can still give in the next day...
there is no way to know, but just like you say, it is not very likely that it will happen. Degradation is one thing, total failure is another which I am not worrying about.
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don't Teslas's just shut off when they get so low? will the I4 run till there's no tomorrow? I mean, I won't care if my battery is at 50% for what I use the car for really-as long as it runs to that point.It remains to be seen how dramatic the cost will truly be to replace a battery.
Also, if the battery is still keeping say 80% of the original capacity, why would you replace it at year 9 or 10? You would only need to adjust your range expectations as part of wear and tear. IMO, I would only replace the battery if it were maybe 25% of the original stated capacity due to degradation but that could take 15 to 20 yrs and by then, who cares
2023 i4M50 Brooklyn Grey, Red V Leather, DAPP, PAP, LaserLights, 19"
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I have not found an increase in my insurance rate when switching to EV. Today, lots of high technology cars, both ICE and EV, are totaled because of the parts and labor cost of complex systems (relative to the depreciated value of a used car).
I believe Tesla long term data on Model S indicates 1000-1500 “full” recharge cycles while still maintaining minimum target capacity (I think that may be 70%). With newer battery technology in the i4 we would potentially see closer to the top end of this cycle range, so let’s say 1300 cycles. With the i4 e40 rated at 300 miles we should be good for almost 400,000 miles for most owners. At that point the car would be End of Life.
Viewed another way, for the battery to be “spent” at the mythical 8yr mark one would need to be driving 50k miles per year.
Viewed another way, for the battery to be “spent” at the mythical 8yr mark one would need to be driving 50k miles per year.
USA Federal law mandates that manufacturers offer at least eight years or 100,000 miles of EV battery warranty coverage. BMW is only offering the minimum warranty by law. They are not confident enough to give a longer warranty than required by law.
How long the battery actually last is unknown. Very few old Tesla on the road. The average car on US roads is 12.6 years. Only the Tesla Roadster is that old and a lot of them have had battery replacements. I don't think comparing I4 to Tesla Model S provides any indication of life. Tesla cars have very good thermal management. I often walk by Tesla's in parking lots in summer heat and they have the fans running cooling the battery. My BMW i4, I don't believe has any thermal management when the car is off. When I turn off my car and lock it, it is quiet. Manual just states don't park in direct sun. Most cars are parked in direct sun all day in a parking lot at work. Maybe BMW's batteries are better and don't need as much thermal management. Historically BMW and other luxury brands are not the longest most reliable vehicles on the road. Most likely the parts in the cooling system and other things will fail way before the battery or the motor need to be replaced.
Most gas cars are sent to the junkyard when the paint starts failing and it starts burning oil. Fixing burning oil is usually a $50 piston ring. Not super expensive, but a few thousands in labor. A lot of cars and engine swap is easy too but 3-4 thousand. EVs are unlikely to last or change how long cars are on the road. When the car gets old, paint will fail, an inverter or other part will go out, $2-3K and the owner is ready for a different car. Battery vs engine doesn't matter. It's the cost to repair everything in the car that will go bad before the battery.
How long the battery actually last is unknown. Very few old Tesla on the road. The average car on US roads is 12.6 years. Only the Tesla Roadster is that old and a lot of them have had battery replacements. I don't think comparing I4 to Tesla Model S provides any indication of life. Tesla cars have very good thermal management. I often walk by Tesla's in parking lots in summer heat and they have the fans running cooling the battery. My BMW i4, I don't believe has any thermal management when the car is off. When I turn off my car and lock it, it is quiet. Manual just states don't park in direct sun. Most cars are parked in direct sun all day in a parking lot at work. Maybe BMW's batteries are better and don't need as much thermal management. Historically BMW and other luxury brands are not the longest most reliable vehicles on the road. Most likely the parts in the cooling system and other things will fail way before the battery or the motor need to be replaced.
Most gas cars are sent to the junkyard when the paint starts failing and it starts burning oil. Fixing burning oil is usually a $50 piston ring. Not super expensive, but a few thousands in labor. A lot of cars and engine swap is easy too but 3-4 thousand. EVs are unlikely to last or change how long cars are on the road. When the car gets old, paint will fail, an inverter or other part will go out, $2-3K and the owner is ready for a different car. Battery vs engine doesn't matter. It's the cost to repair everything in the car that will go bad before the battery.
We may have different definitions of very, few, or old. Perhaps all three?
Some 60% of the 2450 Tesla Roadsters that were built are still out there doing their thing, most of which are now in their teenage years. I actually saw one this spring and mentioned it on the forum.
Yes we do. My other car is a 15 year old car that feels like the day I drove it home with 8 miles on the odometer. Drive in any small town USA and you will see a lot of cars over 20 years old.
Tesla roadsters are now a collector car, so people are going to fix them up to try to keep them on the road. They were never a mainstream car. Model S and X are a little more mainstream and the model 3 definitely is. My dad drives a 56 year old car. A 1968 Jag XK-E Convertible, and there are hundreds of them still driving today. But nothing reliable about them back then or now. They are just cool cars that people are willing to put the money into to keep them on the road. For a daily driver like the Model 3 time will tell if they are reliable or not. I just think we have very little data. Almost 288 Million gas cars have been on the road for almost 100 years, so we have the infrastructure to diagnose and repair them at a reasonable cost if something goes wrong. The I4 we only really have the dealer. Which most owners are okay with since the majority are leased. (I own).
Tesla roadsters are now a collector car, so people are going to fix them up to try to keep them on the road. They were never a mainstream car. Model S and X are a little more mainstream and the model 3 definitely is. My dad drives a 56 year old car. A 1968 Jag XK-E Convertible, and there are hundreds of them still driving today. But nothing reliable about them back then or now. They are just cool cars that people are willing to put the money into to keep them on the road. For a daily driver like the Model 3 time will tell if they are reliable or not. I just think we have very little data. Almost 288 Million gas cars have been on the road for almost 100 years, so we have the infrastructure to diagnose and repair them at a reasonable cost if something goes wrong. The I4 we only really have the dealer. Which most owners are okay with since the majority are leased. (I own).
Sorry, but it's sort of disingenuous to try and ding BMW for offering the "minimum warranty by law" when that warranty is extremely long for any product, car or not. There are virtually no consumer products that offer that long of a warranty, period. Even the brands famous for "lifetime" warranties are slowly phasing them out -- LL Bean comes to mind. And those that do offer "lifetime*" warranties are typically for small, not particularly expensive items.
To be honest, an eight year, 100,000 mile warranty is extremely generous to begin with. To ding BMW for not going longer is silly.
*Where "lifetime" is very much open to interpretation.
Good or bad is based on competition.
Tesla Model 3 Long range "8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period. "
Tesla was 80% for the longest time. BMW doesn't even state 70% on their website. I almost didn't buy the car because of this. I had multiple conversations with the "Genius" and they just said they test the battery to determine if it is good or not. No % is good or bad. So I asked if the car can go 50 miles on a charge. Is the battery good? Genius said they will have to make that determination when that comes up. So unless you live in Cali, it really is up to them.
A luxury brand should have a better warranty than average. I know there are outliers with Kia/Hyundai long warranties but most luxury brands warranty longer than most non-luxury brands.
I know it is unpopular to compare to the model 3, but when I bought in late 2022 it was the only real competition to the I4. Even today there are very few non-SUV EVs. I agree with @rollermonkey Tesla build quality is lower, but it is a much cheaper price point today for similar optioned vehicles.
Tesla Model 3 Long range "8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period. "
Tesla was 80% for the longest time. BMW doesn't even state 70% on their website. I almost didn't buy the car because of this. I had multiple conversations with the "Genius" and they just said they test the battery to determine if it is good or not. No % is good or bad. So I asked if the car can go 50 miles on a charge. Is the battery good? Genius said they will have to make that determination when that comes up. So unless you live in Cali, it really is up to them.
A luxury brand should have a better warranty than average. I know there are outliers with Kia/Hyundai long warranties but most luxury brands warranty longer than most non-luxury brands.
I know it is unpopular to compare to the model 3, but when I bought in late 2022 it was the only real competition to the I4. Even today there are very few non-SUV EVs. I agree with @rollermonkey Tesla build quality is lower, but it is a much cheaper price point today for similar optioned vehicles.
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BMW may not state the 70% on the website, but it is definitely stated in the warranty documents I had to sign, and I can definitely not quote the web page, because that's not a valid statement, only what I agreed to with my signature.
If I am not mistaken, our Kia has the same battery warranty, but the car has a 7 year overall warranty included in the price. I could add 3 extra years to my BMW i4, but had to pay dearly for the 3 extra years. I think I paid about $ 2.2k for 3 years, which in total gives me 5 years of warranty.
In the US, it's California, not the Feds driving the 100k mile HV battery warranty. Also, you can be sure that manufacturers have voiced their opinions about warrantee periods in the rulemaking process, so I don't think the phrase "minimum warranty" carries weight. Just because it's the "minimum" doesn't make it any worse than say 120k mile warranty, especially if actual MTBF data on the HV battery isn't widely known or understood.
What you're really talking about is marketing, in this case a warrantee period, that is perceived to be better but maybe not. Remember the 100k mile ICE powertrain warrantees from Kia and Hyundai a few decades back? Did those really come into play against the 60k mile warrantees from the others or was it simply a marketing gimmick to try and desparately differentiate?
We should be more concerned about other critical components like the heat pump, etc., outside of the new vehicle warrantee period. That has nothing to do with the battery or the motor, but without it, you cannot use the car. You can be sure replacement and repair of that system is going to be in the thousands USD.
EPA 2027 Finalized Rules for EVs -- source
California CARB -- Advanced Clean Car Program -- FAQs -- Batteries Section
BMW offer 5 years in Australia, where 5 is now the minimum expected for a car warranty. Quite a few brands do 7 years or even 10. I think the battery is 8 years.
That settles it - I'm moving to Australia!!
When will F1 races return there? Anyone know?
Unlimited Warranty to original owner only-> 100% agree gimmick.
Long but limited powertrain warranties that are 100% transferable => Provides confidence in buying the product. Shields users from unexpected repair costs. Japanese manufacturers have a history that they don't need a long warranty. I doubt Hyundai and Kia would even be in business if they didn't give long warranties the first few years. They don't need it now as much today. Same with EVs,, having a warranty reduces risk of the consumer and in return the consumer is more likely to buy an unknown life/reliability record..
100%. I've said this on many posts!
A lot of independent shops can easily fix heat pump and cooling issues. Especially EV Garage. Not really that different than the climate systems in gas cars. They are a little more complicated with valves and how they interact, but 90% the same. I also think things like the HV to 12V LV converters and battery chargers are easy for mechanics to fix/swap out. On the I4 we have to worry about motor brushes which are unknown, but a mechanic should be able to swap them, but unlikely will want to mess. Main components I worry about are anything to do with the dash and inverters. Issues that require special tools to diagnose and are less obvious what is wrong. These will probably be a dealer only for a long time because they are really custom to BMW
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Return? It's been back since 2022, it was only cancelled for two Covid years. I can hear the cars from my house and workplace
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