[BlueHoosier]

@Ken7 you have me solidly interested in the EV6. The wife is looking to replace her 11yr A4 within a year or two. For her the number one thing is the seats. She needs her knees below her hips and currently elevates the driver seat as high as it can go. At 5'6" she barely fits with her hair brushing the liner. She has been looking at the Q5 or the CX-5 based on reviews of seat comfort.

I am wonder if the EV6 might fit the bill. I am trying to test drive a GT-Line on Friday. For lots of reasons my wife can't test drive one until our local dealer gets one. If I find it fun to drive and she finds the seats comfortable enough, we may buy an EV6 for her and I would wait a couple years on replacing my S5.

So @Ken7 you sound like a perfect person to ask about the seat fit between Audi sedans, SUV's, and the EV6. Care to comment?

 

[Ken7]

@Ken7 you have me solidly interested in the EV6. The wife is looking to replace her 11yr A4 within a year or two. For her the number one thing is the seats. She needs her knees below her hips and currently elevates the driver seat as high as it can go. At 5'6" she barely fits with her hair brushing the liner. She has been looking at the Q5 or the CX-5 based on reviews of seat comfort.

I am wonder if the EV6 might fit the bill. I am trying to test drive a GT-Line on Friday. For lots of reasons my wife can't test drive one until our local dealer gets one. If I find it fun to drive and she finds the seats comfortable enough, we may buy an EV6 for her and I would wait a couple years on replacing my S5.

So @Ken7 you sound like a perfect person to ask about the seat fit between Audi sedans, SUV's, and the EV6. Care to comment?

Thanks. I'm actually 5'7" and my wife is 5'4", so we're both vertically challenged but we both found the EV6 seats very comfortable. In fact, for my tastes, more comfortable than the 4 series GC I and my wife sat in a couple of times. We actually sat in the 4 series a couple of times precisely because we were concerned about the firmness in the tush. We both found the EV6 seats softer and at the same time supportive. The BMW seats were supportive too, but if I was designing them I'd have made them somewhat softer. I don't know how that would translate to a longer drive, but in my brief test drive of the 4 series GC, they were fine if not a bit firm.

In terms of how the seats compare to my current Audi e-Tron, again I find the EV6 seats softer and more 'comfy'. I like the e-Tron seats, but again they're 'German firm', but not quite as firm as the 4 series GC we sat in. Some love that, some don't, so you really have to try it. We were with friends last night and my buddy's wife said she much prefers fabric seats as opposed to leather because of comfort issues. She prefers the look of leather, but the feel of fabric that doesn't get hot in the summer or cold in the winter. In all honesty, my Tesla MS had the textile seats (some type of fabric material) and they were among the most comfortable seats I've ever had. But again, for leather, the EV6 is very nice.

Let me know how your test drive goes and if you and your wife like it. Good luck!

 

[685]

just one quick fact check - the April 2022 CR brand report rates BMW 3rd and Kia 17th (Hyundai 14th). Each receive the same score in Predicted Reliability. BMW rates higher in road test scores and Owner Satisfaction. I’ll go back to reading and eating my popcorn.

But then… the screen output felt outdated, pale colors and low-res, there was no joy and feel whatsoever in driving the car. The speedo climbed fast but I had no feel from the ride. It felt like a great family car but not a great driving machine.

At that moment I decided it was worth to push the button on the i4 and worth the wait.

After that, I have seen several EV6 on the road and parked. I must say that the initial wows I had on the design is now replaced by the relief I don’t own it myself. Actually I think the EV6 rear design looks like a large sad face. It reminds me of the face I would have had if looking at an i4 owning the EV6.

The Koreans excel at making appliances that win on paper and lose in the ownership experience.
In contrast, Toyota, Honda, and Subaru lose on paper and win in the ownership experience.
People buy Jaguars and Alfas because, despite the mediocre reliability, they're absolute joys to drive.
BMWs are almost as good to drive but more reliable than the Jags and Alfas.
Porsche is excellent in every way, but you pay twice as much. You could buy an Alfa and a Jag for the same money, and just alternate when one's in the shop.

 

[Ken7]

The Koreans excel at making appliances that win on paper and lose in the ownership experience.
In contrast, Toyota, Honda, and Subaru lose on paper and win in the ownership experience.
People buy Jaguars and Alfas because, despite the mediocre reliability, they're absolute joys to drive.
BMWs are almost as good to drive but more reliable than the Jags and Alfas.
Porsche is excellent in every way, but you pay twice as much. You could buy an Alfa and a Jag for the same money, and just alternate when one's in the shop.

As usual we disagree, nothing new. Samsung, LG are Korean brands where ownership experience excels. I have 2 LG OLED TV (I consider myself a videophile) and the ownership experience has been better than any TV, Sony or others, that I've ever owned. I have 3 of them, each with superlative PQ and none of them with a day's worth of trouble. They have the best PQ, hands down. Sony has an OLED TV too, but guess where they get the display panel from? LG. So it's extremely short-sighted to say Koreans lose on the 'ownership experience'. You are living in the past, you really are.

As for cars, I can only go my wife's Sonata Hybrid Limited and she's been very happy with it immediately after having owned a Lexus ES300 hybrid. I agree with her. So there's that too. I speak from experience, not preconceived notions without owning recent examples of these products. It's always best to live with something before you come to conclusions.

As for the EV6, there is review after review from respected automotive reviewers that all have very positive feelings about the car. Bjorn Nyland is one of them, specializing in EV reviews unlike many others, and it's not typical for him to be that enthusiastic about an EV. So there's also that, and he's just one of many. BTW, he also loved the i4 to be objective about it.

With such disdain for Korean products, you should definitely steer clear of them for no matter how good they actually are, it will be nearly impossible for them to push past those negative preconceived notions.

 

[rollermonkey]

Tragic as that place is, the one in Smithtown was 10x worse.

Weird, as it looks like almost any other dealership in Anytown, USA. Apparently a good example of looks being deceiving.

 

[Ken7]

Weird, as it looks like almost any other dealership in Anytown, USA. Apparently a good example of looks being deceiving.

Fabiani is not exaggerating, it really is bad. The worst I've seen of the 3 Kia dealers I've visited. No contest.

 

[Gholum]

Any thoughts about the mach-e? If the suv/crossover segment is on the table, then the mach-e has been very well reviewed.
Its closer to the i4 in driveability than the polestar and the ev6. The magnaride in the gt prem is closer to the i4 dynamic air suspension.

The interior is plasticy and very 'Ford' but the ev6 is not that premier either.

I was looking for a second car that doesnt have to be a family car and is not a tesla i initially started with a mach-e (the 5k nj state rebate drew my attention but i priced myself out of it). Then reports of poor resale and reliability of Ford made me put in a deposit for the i4. I have owned ice bmw's for years. The ionic and ev6 werent available then.
Depending on the day of the week and what posts I read, one car is the runner-up in my i4 decision and another car the next day

 

[Ken7]

I've only sat in a Mach-e once and was turned off to it by the 'dropped in' iPad-like display. I definitely feel the EV6 presents a much more upscale, well-integrated look. I know the reviews are excellent for the EV6, but I haven't really read many Mach-e reviews because of little interest.

I've also never test driven one, but I know, at least in terms of efficiency, it's not considered among the better EVs.

As with most things, you should test drive both and see which suits your needs better.

 

[rollermonkey]

I won't lie: The presentation of the main screens in the EV6 is quite nice compared to all of the slapped on 'screen-on-a-stalk' BEV cars out there.

 

[i4m50Norway]

The reference I made to quality was to current/recent BMWs. Both JD Power & CR show BMW’s reliability lower than Kia or Hyundai. I’m not throwing rocks at BMW, but it was more in response to an earlier post questioning Kia’s quality. It’s true that years ago they were garbage, but a company that has turned itself around should be acknowledged. Honda, Toyota and others went through the same metamorphosis. Many German cars today don’t have the best reputation for reliability. So that too should be acknowledged. OTOH, warranties protect the customer and as long as I’m not in the repair shop with a degree of frequency, I’m OK. I’m just trying to be objective here.

Regarding the charging, it was simply a point Bjorn made regarding the very important aspect of EV quality, charging speed. When you’re on a trip, charging speed becomes every bit as important as range. That’s been proven in a number of EV long range challenge tests, where EVs with lesser range were stacked up with those of longer range and beat those with longer range because of faster charging speeds.

If you feel it was clickbait, you should watch Bjorn’s actual reviews on the EV6. If you’ve watched his reviews, you know he can be very critical about numerous aspects of an EV. In his EV6 review, it’s one of the rare times where he repeatedly mentions how much he enjoys driving the car and feels it’s a real driver’s car. Does he find faults? Sure, Bjorn always does and that’s what makes his reviews one of the most respected in the industry, he’s as objective as any (despite being a bit of a Tesla fanboy). He knows EVs. In the end he says he could see buying the EV6 himself. No small praise from a guy who doesn’t say that very often.

Regarding Taycan & Audi RS alternatives, they are both gorgeous cars, IMO prettier than the i4 or the EV6. However I refuse to pay $115,000 & up for either car. If you know Porsche, they charger extra for everything you can possibly think of. Oh, you want wheels too? It’s absurd. The $100,000 price on the Audi is the base cost. It goes up from there.

I’m of the school that no car is worth these prices, whether you can afford it or not…especially when EV tech is advancing so fast, what ever you buy today will be dated in 2 years.

Ken,

I agree on nearly everything you are saying, and I agree that Bjørn Nyland does very good reviews. The reason for not liking this video is the heading. As I understand the video his issue is specific on charging 800Volt EVs on 50KW/400Volt, and on this "old tech" chargers the KIA is a little bit faster. Charging on a 50KW charger with a car that can take over 200KW is not optimal, and I will probably only do it in emergency with my i4. In Europe you get a very nice charging agreement with new BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche,VW etc. for Ionity charging ($0.17/KW with 350KW chargers), making other chargers including Tesla too expensive. The NAF winter test 2022 has this charging summary (might not be relevant for you if you are not going to charge during winter conditions)

google translate:
(https://nye.naf.no/elbil/lading/ladetest-vinter-2022)
Lightning fast Porsche pulls from the newcomer P7

The fastest charging session of the winter was the Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo and Audi e-tron GT. They were both fully charged in about 20 minutes. Then we had charged from 4 to 80%. On the Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo, we also recorded the test's highest power with 270 kW.

At the opposite end we found Xpeng P7, which spent 1 hour and 3 minutes charging from 5-80%. The highest power we registered here was 65 kW, which is not the 80 kW that the advertisement promises.

This summer's winners disappointed

This summer, IONIQ 5 impressed with record-fast charging. Now the Kia EV6 has come on the scene with the same charging technology, but both models struggle to charge just as fast in freezing temperatures.

Although the electric cars are still charging fast, we are nowhere near achieving the 239 kWs that the advertisement promises. We registered only 154 kW as the peak power.

"The $100,000 price on the Audi is the base cost."
My comment was $100000 above the $70000 i4M50 (I did a test drive on a Audi RS GT at that equipment level august 2021. with possible delivery in 2021 - that at that time was assumed to be the last year without tax on EV's in Norway - later extended into 2022.

I certanly understand that you are looking into alternatives to the i4 with uncertain delivery time. I will wait for the i4m50, but I dont need it now. My BMW i3 is used for 80 percent of my driving now - and I also like to drive my 10 - 30 years old ICE cars. (one of the reason is the precise stearing feedback, that newer cars do not have (electric vs. hydraulic servo etc) -

)

 

[685]

The advertised charging rates on all these cars are overstated. 300kw? 150kw? Sure, for the first 5 minutes. Then the rate quickly drops off. Meh. My car is full every morning.

 

[Ken7]

Ken,

I agree on nearly everything you are saying, and I agree that Bjørn Nyland does very good reviews. The reason for not liking this video is the heading. As I understand the video his issue is specific on charging 800Volt EVs on 50KW/400Volt, and on this "old tech" chargers the KIA is a little bit faster. Charging on a 50KW charger with a car that can take over 200KW is not optimal, and I will probably only do it in emergency with my i4. In Europe you get a very nice charging agreement with new BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche,VW etc. for Ionity charging ($0.17/KW with 350KW chargers), making other chargers including Tesla too expensive. The NAF winter test 2022 has this charging summary (might not be relevant for you if you are not going to charge during winter conditions)

google translate:
(https://nye.naf.no/elbil/lading/ladetest-vinter-2022)
Lightning fast Porsche pulls from the newcomer P7

The fastest charging session of the winter was the Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo and Audi e-tron GT. They were both fully charged in about 20 minutes. Then we had charged from 4 to 80%. On the Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo, we also recorded the test's highest power with 270 kW.

At the opposite end we found Xpeng P7, which spent 1 hour and 3 minutes charging from 5-80%. The highest power we registered here was 65 kW, which is not the 80 kW that the advertisement promises.

This summer's winners disappointed

This summer, IONIQ 5 impressed with record-fast charging. Now the Kia EV6 has come on the scene with the same charging technology, but both models struggle to charge just as fast in freezing temperatures.

Although the electric cars are still charging fast, we are nowhere near achieving the 239 kWs that the advertisement promises. We registered only 154 kW as the peak power.

"The $100,000 price on the Audi is the base cost."
My comment was $100000 above the $70000 i4M50 (I did a test drive on a Audi RS GT at that equipment level august 2021. with possible delivery in 2021 - that at that time was assumed to be the last year without tax on EV's in Norway - later extended into 2022.

I certanly understand that you are looking into alternatives to the i4 with uncertain delivery time. I will wait for the i4m50, but I dont need it now. My BMW i3 is used for 80 percent of my driving now - and I also like to drive my 10 - 30 years old ICE cars. (one of the reason is the precise stearing feedback, that newer cars do not have (electric vs. hydraulic servo etc) -

)

Yup, no EV will charge as fast in the winter as they do in the summer. I didn’t realize the EV6/Ioniq 5 set new charging speed records during that summer test. For those that have never lived with EVs, they are a hell of a lot of fun, but you definitely need to learn to live with them. I’d still never go back to ICE after having had 3 of these EVs.

 

[Ken7]

The advertised charging rates on all these cars are overstated. 300kw? 150kw? Sure, for the first 5 minutes. Then the rate quickly drops off. Meh. My car is full every morning.

That’s not the point at all. If you understand EV charging, the desired behavior is to maintain high charging speeds as long as you can. That’s very important when road tripping. There is a huge variation among EVs in that regard. Teslas are not among the best and my MS was certainly indicative of that. My e-Tron OTOH, as poor as its range is, maintains a high charging rate far longer than most EVs. That’s why it can beat longer range EVs in long distance challenges. Apparently the new EV6 & Ioniq 5 are among the current best now (yeah, those poorly engineered Korean products). 🤣

 

[steffo]

Bjorns gets a ride in the 580+hp EV6 GT

 

[fabiani]

….That’s why it can beat longer range EVs in long distance challenges. Apparently the new EV6 & Ioniq 5 are among the current best now (yeah, those poorly engineered Korean products). 🤣

I think it’s a mistake assuming Korean products are poorly engineered simply because they are Korean. It’s a euro-ethnocentric view that just does not bear out in the evidence when you look at other tech. In fact, it’s likely that they’ve put all of their resources into engineering and not enough into other areas.

Kia needs to put more money and time in on design, build quality, UI/UX, marketing, and customer experience. Their tech holds up nicely against European brands. Their QC and dealerships are embarrassingly bad and not worthy of the sophistication in their products. Unfortunately, those things stand between Kia and the market segment they’d love to have.

My guess is that’s why you haven’t already bought the EV6 instead of waiting for your BMW. It’s not the engineering at all.

 

[Ken7]

I think it’s a mistake assuming Korean products are poorly engineered simply because they are Korean. It’s a euro-ethnocentric view that just does not bear out in the evidence when you look at other tech. In fact, it’s likely that they’ve put all of their resources into engineering and not enough into other areas.

Kia needs to put more money and time in on design, build quality, UI/UX, marketing, and customer experience. Their tech holds up nicely against European brands. Their QC and dealerships are embarrassingly bad and not worthy of the sophistication in their products. Unfortunately, those things stand between Kia and the market segment they’d love to have.

My guess is that’s why you haven’t already bought the EV6 instead of waiting for your BMW. It’s not the engineering at all.

Actually it was always the more luxurious interior of the i4 that always had it in the #1 slot for me. That’s where you live. Certainly the EV6 interior is very nice, and I actually found the seats a bit more comfortable, but the i4 interior is just a nicer place to be.

Having driven 3 different EV6s, I honestly didn’t notice any QC issues. Fit & finish looked very good. Certainly their warranties are excellent, so that wasn’t a concern. Now their dealerships are a different story. Outwardly they pale by comparison to the BMW dealerships. Of course aside from the obvious aesthetic differences in a Kia dealership vs a BMW dealership, there is the question of the actual service quality. Having never owned a BMW or a Kia, I can’t attest to the quality of either brand’s dealership service.

BTW, I never had to face the ’real’ choice between the two since there has never been a white EV6 GT available within 100+ miles of me. Dealers are getting very very few of these and most are accounted for upon arrival. The wait time for a new order seems to be 6-12 months depending upon which dealer you speak to. So there’s that too.

Finally, if I’m being brutally honest, there is also the pride factor (snob factor? 😆) in owning a BMW rather than a Kia. There, I said it...and I’m embarrassed for saying it. 😔

 

[i4m50Norway]

Looking at video, and comment from Bjørn, the EV6 is much better than Tesla Model 3 on speeds above 200 km/h, but I do not think it is at BMW/Porsche/Mercedes/Audi/Volkswagen level at high speeds ?

Some of the core developers at Kia comes from BMW and Audi, And the Korean Samsung owns the American company Harman (Harman Kardon) that also aquired Becker that has been for many years, and is building most of Audio/Navigation systems in BMW (iDrive) and Mercedes.

The thing that makes a German car, german is the tuning (and software) of the different components that is built around the world. And then you have the marketing and branding.

Has anyone looked at the consumptions of the EV6 at high speeds - you end up with more time charging than driving. It will be interesting to see how the iXM60 consumes at 250km/h. Speeds like that on a EV is only for fun - does not makes sense at all.

 

[Ken7]

I don't think very many buyers, certainly here in the U.S., could care much about consumption at speeds above 200km/hr!

However at speeds that most of us drive at and won't spend time in jail or losing our license for doing, the EV6 is very competitive with the i4 & most other EVs.

 

[i4m50Norway]

Sorry for being unclear, but I was trying to say that the consumption on EV's (actually all cars) is very high when driving very fast. The EV6 consumption is one example of why driving fast with an EV over longer distances does not make sense - because of charging times, and the hassle with stopping every hour. But it is great fun to do it once in a while, and I have grown up with my naive looking at the speedometers of my neighbours cars to find out who has the best cars.

(I have a real problem with the i4 40 max speed of 190 kmh, even the iX has a higher top speed, and so do my 40 years old Mercedes S-class. The i4M50's 225 kmh is better, but cannot match my 30 years old Mercedes SL, so I like the top speed of the EV6 GT (and also the iXM60 - 250KMH. It is a big improvement compared with my i3 with a top speed of 150kmh - that car also required recharging every hour at that speed).

 

[Ken7]

Well, 118mph can still wind you up in jail, result in a loss of license or if you're lucky, just a ticket. So at least in the U.S., 118 is more than enough.